insights In Sound 222 – Joey Stuckey, Artist/Producer/Advocate S23 E 2

0:000 secondsWelcome to Insights and Sound, where we talk to the people behind the scenes, behind the technology, and behind the music. People you may not know, but you
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0:2828 secondsI’m here at Shadow Sound Studios in Mon, Georgia with the inimitable Joey Stucky. Nice work. I’m real big on the words.
0:3535 secondsShowing off that education.
0:3838 secondsThis studio is pretty much your your your workhorse, right? Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.
0:4242 secondsAnd you navigate your way around this quite nicely, clearly.
0:4646 secondsYeah. I I you know, I do know this space. Um and it’s interesting because a lot of people think if you’re blind um
0:5555 secondsyou need your cane and stuff, you know, all the time. Um, and here I I really don’t. Um, I um I I do need it, you
1:031 minute, 3 secondsknow, in public spaces that I’m not familiar with things and where there’s a lot of moving people that I can’t anticipate. Um, that kind of stuff.
1:101 minute, 10 secondsBut yeah, here, I mean, we have a couple of pretty easy rules. And the first one is don’t leave your stuff in the middle of the floor. [laughter]
1:191 minute, 19 secondsIt’s like you could put your put your put your guitar cases or whatever it is up against the walls, right? Yeah, let’s
1:261 minute, 26 secondslet’s keep that forward clear because I will tell you and I’m not saying I’m right. I’m not saying I’m wrong, but I don’t like
1:331 minute, 33 secondshaving to take an hour and a half to cross a space.
1:361 minute, 36 secondsSo, I want to move like time is money and I want to walk with some purpose.
1:421 minute, 42 secondsSo, I do I do move slightly faster than is probably smart, but if I fall, I fall, whatever. I’m just I don’t I don’t
1:501 minute, 50 secondshave the uh I don’t have the patience to like crawl across the room. [laughter] Now, you’ve been you were cited for I think a year or something before you went blind.
2:002 minutesYeah. Well, so so we don’t really know.
2:012 minutes, 1 secondSo the because they discovered the brain tumor when I was 18 months old. Okay.
2:062 minutes, 6 secondsI have no memory of seeing but it is possible uh that I did. I just don’t remember. Uh what what happened in that
2:152 minutes, 15 secondsuh moment was my my parents are remarkable people and uh my mom was just
2:222 minutes, 22 secondssuch a great mom and the fact that uh you know she was very observant and she took me to the doctor because she felt
2:292 minutes, 29 secondslike I was having issues navigating the space. To to give you an idea uh I
2:362 minutes, 36 secondsstarted speaking full sentences when I was 11 months old. Um I was always a fairly bright child.
2:412 minutes, 41 secondsSo for her to feel like, you know, I wasn’t uh right thriving, I guess would be the right word, that just didn’t want. So she took
2:502 minutes, 50 secondsme to the doctor like, “Oh, you’re overprotective mother. Go home, bake some cookies, you know, it’s all fine.” Uh, so she was dismissed. And then, uh,
2:572 minutes, 57 secondsshortly after that, um, my dad, um, had me and he he he had me and by the hand
3:053 minutes, 5 secondsand he let go and I just sort of like shuffled my foot a little bit and fell down some stairs. Oh. Oh, there were about 30 of them. Oh.
3:133 minutes, 13 secondsAnd it scared my parents to death. And so they ran me to the hospital like, you know, immediately. Um, and they’re like,
3:213 minutes, 21 seconds”Oh, I I think this kid’s blind.” And so then the next question was, “Why?” Uh, so that’s that that they they had to
3:293 minutes, 29 secondsfigure out like what happened. So, turns out I had a brain tumor that was growing at such a quick rate that it was
3:363 minutes, 36 secondsliterally I mean crushing my my my systems inside my body. It was like sort of ripping the wires out just
3:443 minutes, 44 secondsfrom from the pressure of this expansion.
3:473 minutes, 47 secondsSo, it it took out the old octave nerves which is why I’m blind. Took out my uh uh sense of smell.
3:533 minutes, 53 secondsUh took out my indocrine system. So, I don’t have any thyroid. I don’t have any adrenal function. So, it took out a whole bunch of stuff. Damn.
4:014 minutes, 1 secondSo, yeah, it was it was rough. And and the interesting thing, um, this is something I appreciate from my dad. Uh,
4:094 minutes, 9 secondsthe the thing was the doctor said, “Well, we can do a surgery, but there’s really no point. He’s going to die.” And dad’s like, “Well, you’re not doing the
4:184 minutes, 18 secondssurgery. I’m going to find somebody else. Second opinion, please.” And good that he did because the next surgeon
4:244 minutes, 24 secondssaid, “Well, it’s true that, you know, if we don’t operate, he will for sure die. Uh, and it will not be pleasant.”
4:324 minutes, 32 secondsAnd he said, “But if we do the surgery, there is a good chance that he won’t make it. And there’s a good chance that
4:394 minutes, 39 secondsif he does make it, he won’t walk or talk, but we really don’t have a choice.
4:444 minutes, 44 secondsWe have to try.” Uh, he said, “It’s going to be eight or nine hour surgery. So, yeah.” He said just, you know, just be prepared for
4:514 minutes, 51 secondsthat. And uh he came out in about three and a half hours. And u and my parents, you know, he he told him like, “Look, if I come out in a short amount of time, it
4:594 minutes, 59 secondshad gone well.” Uh and he said, “I uh I don’t really know how to explain it, but I just sort of lifted the tumor out.”
5:085 minutes, 8 secondsAnd he said, “No, it’s done a lot of damage, and he’s a very sick child, but you know, this is I I I got it.” And uh
5:175 minutes, 17 secondsso um you know and there were there were many days uh you I spent 45 days in ICU
5:245 minutes, 24 secondsu just recovering uh I had tons of seizures. I had to wear a padded helmet because you can’t really see it because
5:315 minutes, 31 secondsI covered my hair but there’s a scar that kind of goes from here all the way to here and they took that whole flap of skull out. Wow.
5:385 minutes, 38 secondsTo get to get to the tumor. And nowadays they can actually do it. science is advanced enough that they can actually uh if I remember correctly go through
5:475 minutes, 47 secondsyour nasal passage or something and get it but back then they couldn’t do that.
5:515 minutes, 51 secondsSo, so you know, so um [clears throat] you know, there’s been some challenges um certainly, but uh uh I did almost die
5:575 minutes, 57 secondsa lot as a child. I really uh initially had to focus on survival and just, you
6:056 minutes, 5 secondsknow, getting through the day um before I got into any [clears throat] kind of extracurricular activities, you know. So, um, it was it was challenging.
6:146 minutes, 14 secondsAnd honestly, you know, the blind part is I won’t say it’s not challenging because it is. And I can’t say I recommend it, [laughter] but but that is
6:236 minutes, 23 secondsactually the easier thing. The harder part is really managing the other things the brain tumor did with the adrenal
6:306 minutes, 30 secondsfunction and stuff like that. That’s that’s really the hard part. And, uh, lots of pills and stuff.
6:356 minutes, 35 secondsWell, yeah. And you know um uh we’re in the music business and that we have weird schedules and we have high energy
6:436 minutes, 43 secondsuh demands on our time whether it’s performing or recording or whatever it is and you know so I have to I have to
6:516 minutes, 51 secondsmanage my energy very carefully um because if I can if I don’t do the right things if I don’t take my medicine the right time if I don’t drink a lot of
6:596 minutes, 59 secondsfluids if I don’t you I can go into adrenal shock and that would be bad you know probably fatal. So, um, fortunately
7:067 minutes, 6 secondsfor me, uh, I am surrounded by people that care because when I start making records, everything else is in the background.
7:147 minutes, 14 secondsAnd people, my my friends will say like, uh, hey, dude, you got that look you get when you’re when you’re not drinking enough. Drink this.
7:227 minutes, 22 secondsOh, okay. I mean, I didn’t I I didn’t even realize that. I’m busy making a record. And then and then, you know, the other thing is is they’ll say, “Hey, you know, you got to eat, take your
7:307 minutes, 30 secondsmedicine.” Oh, yeah. [laughter] But I mean I I watch it, don’t get me wrong, but like it is nice to be surrounded by other people that can say,
7:377 minutes, 37 seconds”Ah, you got that look you get.” Oh, okay. And then my wife’s an practice nurse. That’s pretty handy. So here here
7:447 minutes, 44 secondsin the studio, uh everything is set up to to suit me. And uh that’s one of the things I mean, you know, and I I um
7:527 minutes, 52 secondsremember I was sick in the dark ages of medicine, comparatively speaking. Um you this was this is like the the 80 late 70s, early 80s. And uh so one of the
8:028 minutes, 2 secondsthings they told me as a child was like you need to sleep at 68°
8:098 minutes, 9 secondsum and um that’s going to be better for your health. And I mean god knows why or if it’s even true but that’s what we did. So now I’m just used to it. So my
8:188 minutes, 18 secondsstudio is always cold [laughter] and so like people like oh my god it’s so cold here like oh yeah uh you know you should read the website because it says bring a bring a jacket.
8:278 minutes, 27 secondsI love it. [laughter] I love it. [clears throat] Well, I didn’t bring one, but I’m okay for now. But you’re But you’re you’re hot nature.
8:328 minutes, 32 secondsYes. Yes, I am. [laughter] So menopause.
8:358 minutes, 35 secondsThere you Yeah. Or something. Yeah. I’m not sure what it is. Midlife crisis or something, you know. Yeah. So um so do
8:428 minutes, 42 secondsyou navigate acoustically or Yes. Um that is a thing. And there are
8:508 minutes, 50 secondsthere are apocryphal tales of blind people that are I say apocryphal because I have not experienced them per personally so I can’t attest to the
8:588 minutes, 58 secondstruthfulness. I don’t know but there are a lot of tales of blind people that are even better at it than I am. Uh but there there are guys that uh you know
9:069 minutes, 6 secondswalk around clicking their tongues and um and uh you know I mean that does work. But what I will tell you um it it
9:159 minutes, 15 secondsdoes work for me. Now, once you get kind of below the knee, it’s not as accurate for me. I don’t know if that’s just me.
9:249 minutes, 24 secondsUhhuh.
9:249 minutes, 24 secondsOr or what, but you know, like if it’s sort of, you know, waist or higher. I mean, I can hear stuff pretty well below
9:329 minutes, 32 secondsthe knee. Yeah. You know, I’ve hit my fair share of fire hybrid.
9:359 minutes, 35 secondsI was going to say, so shins are shins. Yeah. Shins aoy. So it’s [laughter] like you know so but but then but you know the um um the other thing
9:449 minutes, 44 secondsis um I don’t do the tongue click thing but what I will do when I walk into a new space is stop at the entrances and clap
9:529 minutes, 52 secondsand then I will I will just listen and hear the reflections and get a pretty good feel for the size of the room. You
10:0110 minutes, 1 secondknow if there are some obstacles that part is not perfect. Uh the the size thing works really well. I I’m
10:0910 minutes, 9 secondspretty good. That that’s pretty accurate. Um sometimes sometimes I just don’t catch all the the the impediments as far as obstacles. So sometimes I’ll
10:1810 minutes, 18 secondsmiss some of those. But that’s why you have the cane. Sure.
10:2010 minutes, 20 secondsAnd you know that’s you can kind of bump around and find yourself. I also um I wear I wear the dark glasses u uh in
10:2810 minutes, 28 secondspublic primarily to help cue people in the fact that I’m I’m a blind man. It’s kind of like you know the costume, right?
10:3610 minutes, 36 secondsUm for good or for ill, right? Of course, it’s, you know, it’s it’s a stereotype. It’s it’s, you know, it’s it’s a stereotype, but it it does
10:4310 minutes, 43 secondshelp because uh people are not looking at you most of the time. People are looking at their phone or whatever and it does kind of
10:5210 minutes, 52 secondshelp signal uh that okay, you’d think the cane would be sufficient, but but [laughter] uh but but not not all the
10:5910 minutes, 59 secondstime. Um now the other thing I will tell you is that uh it is possible um on
11:0611 minutes, 6 secondsstage because my uh my uh eyes do dilate but they’re slow. Uh they they move real slow. So externally the eyes function.
11:1911 minutes, 19 secondsIt’s just the wiring that connects them to the brain that’s gone. Right. So, uh they there is a possibility
11:2711 minutes, 27 secondslike on stage with stage lighting that um that if if a a spotlight hits me right in the eye, uh it can cause some
11:3511 minutes, 35 secondspain. Not that I can see it, but because the aperture of my eyes move slower. Oh, interesting.
11:4211 minutes, 42 secondsAnd so I will I will sometimes I will sometimes wear them for that reason. Um
11:4811 minutes, 48 secondsu on stage. Um, and it doesn’t happen often, but it has happened. Um, and I figure, you know, if you avoid pain,
11:5611 minutes, 56 seconds[laughter]
11:5611 minutes, 56 secondsI guess I’m some people pay extra for it.
11:5911 minutes, 59 secondsWell, that’s true. And we’ll talk about that on the next on another [laughter] show. That’s the next show we’re doing.
12:0412 minutes, 4 secondsYeah. Some people pay extra for it, the sequel. Uh, [laughter] so so but yeah, but but it it I at the location, like I say, I kind of do a little differently.
12:1312 minutes, 13 secondsUm, I I will either clap my hands, which is usually the thing I like the best, or sometimes, depending on the
12:2012 minutes, 20 secondscircumstance, I’ll actually take my cane and go tap tap just real just real hard and on the floor.
12:2612 minutes, 26 secondsYeah. On the floor. And sometimes, u, sometimes that’s useful, too. When I was young, um, and I’m still very, uh, very
12:3412 minutes, 34 secondsvery, uh, I’m just seasoned. I’m not old. [laughter] Just But when I was in Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. When I was in my
12:4212 minutes, 42 secondsteens, um, we actually had my ears were so good that that that they were
12:4912 minutes, 49 secondsactually too sensitive, like loud, like what what’s like standard volume for me now was like painful back. I mean,
12:5612 minutes, 56 secondsphysically painful. Uh, so I the first band that I was in when I was about 18 years old or 19 years old, um, I I had
13:0413 minutes, 4 secondsto wear and it looked ridiculous, but I had to wear gun muffs because I I just couldn’t take the volume and they weren’t playing particularly loud.
13:1313 minutes, 13 secondsUh, but I just could it was painful. Uh, eventually I’m not sure what happened to tell you the truth. I don’t know if it’s just a I was acclimatizing myself or I
13:2113 minutes, 21 secondsdon’t really know what changed but eventually I got used to it and that stopped happening. But anyway, when I was a teenager, my friends would had two
13:2913 minutes, 29 secondsgames they love to play uh with the blind guy. And one of them was we would sit in the theater. I’d sit in the front
13:3813 minutes, 38 secondscenter uh of the theater and they would run to a chair and say, “Where am I?” And I would tell them the row and the
13:4513 minutes, 45 secondsseat just by hearing them say, “Where am I?” Wow. And I was almost never wrong. Damn.
13:5113 minutes, 51 secondsAnd and and I mean it was my party trick. And then and then the other game, it’s it’s a little bit scarier. The
13:5913 minutes, 59 secondsother game is they would go to a store and they try to find the weirdest thing they could find and they bring it. So, feel this. Tell me what it is. I was
14:0614 minutes, 6 secondslike, man, I don’t know. I’m not What What kind of store are we in, [laughter] you know? But I mean, they would bring me stuff like, you know, it would be
14:1314 minutes, 13 secondslike I say, well, it feels like a soup can. It’s paint. Oh, well, close enough.
14:2014 minutes, 20 secondsIt’s a can. So, but anyway, I mean, you expect me to tell you the color, too? I mean, [laughter] you know, but we those were some of the games we played when I was uh a kid. But, but honestly, you
14:2814 minutes, 28 secondsknow, some people would kind of be insulted by it. I liked it because what it said was that um you’re just one of the you’re just one of the guys, you
14:3614 minutes, 36 secondsknow. You’re just you’re just we’re just we’re all we’re all equal here in the sense that we’re all beings. We’re all friends. Um and the fact you can’t see
14:4414 minutes, 44 secondsain’t no big deal. [laughter] I think that’s kind of cool actually.
14:4814 minutes, 48 secondsI really like that. And I also will tell you and we I won’t I will not go down the rabbit hole but I do like a good blind joke as well. So I collect those written a few.
14:5714 minutes, 57 secondsI have I have noticed that. Yes. I think I think the first time we met you told me something about u you know loan me a hundred bucks and I’ll pay you back next time I see you or something like that.
15:0515 minutes, 5 secondsYeah. I’m sure that sounds sounds reasonable. Yeah.
15:0715 minutes, 7 secondsYeah. Yeah. Yeah. Or I’ll play golf any night this week you want. Yeah. Yeah.
15:1015 minutes, 10 secondsYeah. [laughter] And it you know I think what’s what’s I think what’s really important to me um
15:1615 minutes, 16 secondsand I will tell you I on a daily basis
15:2415 minutes, 24 secondsask myself the question what can I do today that is going to
15:3115 minutes, 31 secondsmake life a little better? And I really feel like um that artists are a
15:4115 minutes, 41 secondsmissionritical part of a healthy society and I I take very seriously the
15:4815 minutes, 48 secondsfunctions that we have as artists which you know probably pretty obvious but you know first of all recording history that’s part of that’s part of our job.
15:5915 minutes, 59 secondsUh promoting new ways of thinking that’s part of our job. Uh so so exposure to new ideas um uh you reminding you of old
16:0816 minutes, 8 secondsideas and also like destroying the the sort of myth
16:1516 minutes, 15 secondsthat sort of you know to me sort of plagues human nature which is that we are all alone. No one can know our
16:2216 minutes, 22 secondsstory. So art puts that idea to the lie and and tells you that that is not true
16:2816 minutes, 28 secondsbecause you can uh be in someone else’s life and go, “Oh, I’ve I know this story
16:3516 minutes, 35 secondsbecause it’s also my story.” And uh maybe it’s not exactly the same, but it’s close enough that you understand
16:4216 minutes, 42 secondsthat we’re all beings, you know, we’re all uh you know, fellow passengers on spaceship Earth, and we have a duty to
16:5016 minutes, 50 secondseach other um to to be kind and and to lift each other up. So, I think about every day like what can I what can I say? What can I do? What can I sing?
16:5816 minutes, 58 secondsWhat can I play? you know, what is it that I could do to to remind people of that idea of of the unity that that is,
17:0817 minutes, 8 secondsyou know, humankind? and and so so I really like the idea of talking about uh
17:1617 minutes, 16 secondswhat is my lived experience as a blind person because uh it really number one
17:2217 minutes, 22 secondsit illuminates um you know how how I view things and how I do things which I think is interesting and and can be
17:3017 minutes, 30 secondsinformative but it also uh lets you take a peek into where we’re similar um and where we’re not and you know what an
17:3917 minutes, 39 secondsinteresting world it is because we are all different. So I I think that’s a I think it’s an important thing. So I every day, you know, I think what is it
17:4817 minutes, 48 secondsthat I can do today? And you know, it’s small stuff. I mean, I’m under I don’t I don’t have the reach of Taylor Swift or Bruce Springsteen or, you know, I don’t
17:5717 minutes, 57 secondshave that reach, but within the uh the framework that I do have, which you know, one of the goals of of being an
18:0418 minutes, 4 secondsartist is to expand your your network of of uh people that enjoy your creativity. so you can make more art, you know.
18:1118 minutes, 11 seconds[laughter] So, but but I mean in that [clears throat] in that group, you know, you find that people need to hear uh what you have to say. Sometimes it it’s
18:1818 minutes, 18 secondsa it really can be important. So, whether it’s sharing a different perspective from a different lived experience or whether it’s just
18:2618 minutes, 26 secondsreminding someone like, hey, you know, like everybody everybody has a bad day once in a while or or whatever it is, like, you know, just that communication
18:3418 minutes, 34 secondsis important. And what surprises me the most is that social media
18:4118 minutes, 41 secondshas become less of a tool for unity and more of a tool for
18:5018 minutes, 50 secondsdivision. I don’t say that lightly. I I’m not a sky I’m not I’m not the sky is falling chicken little kind of guy. I’m you know glass half full all that good
18:5918 minutes, 59 secondsstuff. But I I will say that, you know, you you have to um you have to take steps if you’re going
19:0619 minutes, 6 secondsto be in that realm um to to make it as inviting of a place as you can because
19:1519 minutes, 15 secondssadly it doesn’t seem to want to default that way. It’s it seems to take more and
19:2119 minutes, 21 secondsmore effort um to keep it something that is a boon rather than
19:2819 minutes, 28 secondssome kind of uh crazy funhouse echo chamber of bias. It’s like you know you just have to really you know so you know
19:3619 minutes, 36 secondswe were talking about like your jokes the other day like like that’s a good use of your time. Like to me, I mean, it’s silly, right? But at the same time,
19:4419 minutes, 44 secondsit’s actually a really powerful thing to put something out there that gives someone the pause and makes them laugh or makes them think and react creatively
19:5319 minutes, 53 secondsback to you. And that’s the other thing with music, like we can, you know, the joy of it. I mean, I’m kind of coming full circle here on this idea, but the
20:0220 minutes, 2 secondsjoy of music is like when you got a bunch of guys in a room or whatever and you’re all playing off each other, that’s that that’s that communication,
20:1020 minutes, 10 secondsthat reaction that comes into full focus. That’s another reason that, you know, making music such an important thing. Even if you’re not a musician,
20:1920 minutes, 19 secondsyou can you can see the communication, you can feel the interaction, and you can draw uh sustenance from that. I
20:2620 minutes, 26 secondsthink you believe in a collective unconscious.
20:3020 minutes, 30 secondsYeah, I think so. I mean, you know, I don’t pretend to [clears throat] I don’t pretend to have the answers. Uh
20:3920 minutes, 39 secondswhat I will say is that I have experienced things that fall outside my ability to define them. Uh and and I
20:4820 minutes, 48 secondswant to be very clear about this. I am uh I am I am 100%
20:5620 minutes, 56 secondsspirit and artist and I am 100% science and that is why I love this job because
21:0521 minutes, 5 secondsit lets me do both those things and I left and right brains together.
21:0921 minutes, 9 secondsYeah. I mean I you know but I know for a fact um you know you can call it whatever you want but there is
21:1821 minutes, 18 secondsuh a a exchange of energy or whatever you want to call it between artist and
21:2421 minutes, 24 secondsand and observer uh performer and audience uh you know musician and
21:3221 minutes, 32 secondsproducer uh I mean there there is there’s a trade that’s happening there in a spiritual way And however you want
21:4021 minutes, 40 secondsto define that, you know, it’s not for me to say, but but I certainly know that it’s it’s there. It sure is. Yeah. I
21:4721 minutes, 47 secondsmean, it’s it’s a real thing. And and what I love about it is that um I can’t necessarily define it, but I can prove it. [laughter]
21:5521 minutes, 55 secondsWell, and that’s the funny thing about it, and that’s one of the things that I’ve always really cherished is the idea that we have this
22:0322 minutes, 3 secondsthis this connection, and these ideas, they don’t come from us, they come through us. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.
22:1022 minutes, 10 secondsAnd I love that because when you talk about getting a bunch of people together in the same room, there’s an exchange of energy there
22:1822 minutes, 18 secondsthat I just feel you, you know, I mean, I was having this conversation with somebody yesterday because we were talking about AI. Oh yeah.
22:2622 minutes, 26 secondsAnd which we’ll get into in a minute.
22:2822 minutes, 28 secondsBut [laughter] um but you know one of the things that I mentioned is that I said you know every technological advance has changed the way we create.
22:3922 minutes, 39 secondsYeah. you know, even down to, you know, when you started going to multitrack, when you had the ability to overdub, all
22:4722 minutes, 47 secondsof a sudden things changed because then you didn’t have to have somebody in the same room, right?
22:5322 minutes, 53 secondsAnd more importantly, the more tracks you got, the more you didn’t have to bring your agame. That’s true.
22:5922 minutes, 59 secondsYou know, that is interesting. it has, you know, it with with the computer we have and I don’t know if it’s a good thing or a bad
23:0723 minutes, 7 secondsthing, but it is what it is. Uh we do tend to kick the can down the road a little further about making a choice.
23:1523 minutes, 15 secondsWe do. And that’s and that is to our detriment because I think once you once you commit to a decision and just go with it, you just got to make it work.
23:2323 minutes, 23 secondsExactly. And you know that’s going to then lead to other decisions, right? And oh, it’s this waterfall effect.
23:3023 minutes, 30 secondsExactly. And and then because cuz otherwise you’re ended up basically just, you know, it’s the it’s the um you know, the paralysis thing.
23:3823 minutes, 38 secondsYeah. Paralysis.
23:3923 minutes, 39 secondsYeah. You know, cuz you’re you’re constantly thinking, well, I’m going to decide later on, you know. Yeah.
23:4423 minutes, 44 secondsThen you end up with 128 tracks named audio one, audio. Oh, I know. I’m like, what is this? Yeah, exactly.
23:5023 minutes, 50 secondsWhy did I Why did I do this? Well, well, you know, I’ll tell you what I think about that. Uh because uh I will say that
24:0024 minutesnot having to cuz you know we um you and I well we have a very similar uh
24:0824 minutes, 8 secondsaesthetic and and uh and I think belief system and sympatico in a lot of ways but uh you know I got into the business
24:1624 minutes, 16 secondsin the 90s um and you know um I I don’t know how much People will
24:2424 minutes, 24 secondsremember this, but there was a time when one had a set number of tracks and that was that.
24:3124 minutes, 31 secondsAnd a set number of outboard pieces.
24:3324 minutes, 33 secondsOh, yeah. Yeah. And so now, but so one of the things what I will say is what I don’t miss, okay, is like, oh, we we
24:4124 minutes, 41 secondsneed a tambourine. Uh oh, hey, you know, guitar track number two has some space.
24:4624 minutes, 46 secondsWe’ll put the tambourine on the guitar track, right? I don’t miss that.
24:4924 minutes, 49 secondsI don’t miss that [laughter] either. I love the idea that everything can have its own track. Yeah. Yeah. So, but but I’m with you in the fact that like
24:5624 minutes, 56 secondsreally we should make and this is what I’ve learned. I think this is just getting older and wiser like like you know what just bring the right people together in the room.
25:0525 minutes, 5 secondsYeah.
25:0525 minutes, 5 secondsAnd and and and all the things will take care of themselves and then you’ll like you don’t have to do a bunch of extra stuff because you already did it all.
25:1325 minutes, 13 secondsLike it’s like you made the choice like oh that’s that’s the sale we’re going for. It’s done. It’s like we don’t have to. And and you know, the better the
25:2025 minutes, 20 secondsplayer, like the the fewer things I have to EQ, the fewer things I have to compress, like I I I just have to do such, you know, not as much work at all.
25:3025 minutes, 30 secondsAnd you know, look, no disrespect to the the less seasoned player, you know, but I have to do a lot more to help them.
25:3725 minutes, 37 secondsYes. And the thing about it is, you know, the whole perfection thing is so overrated to begin with, and people get so precious about putting it on the grid and stuff.
25:4525 minutes, 45 secondsOh my god. you know, um, my my old buddy Bruce Rob, who was one of the one of the owners of Cherokee. Oh, yeah.
25:5325 minutes, 53 secondsUm, Bruce Bruce and I got back together after many, many years and interviewed him. Oh, neat. And he was telling me this great story.
26:0026 minutesYou know, one of the guys that used to come around the studio all the time was Steve Craropper. Oh, sure.
26:0426 minutes, 4 secondsAnd, uh, and they’re in a session and uh, at one point, for some strange reason, the kick drum mic drops out for four bars.
26:1326 minutes, 13 secondsWeird. And they said, “Okay, you know, Crop, what do you want to do? You want to do this again?” And Crop just looks
26:2026 minutes, 20 secondsat him and says, “Kick drum rest.”
26:2326 minutes, 23 seconds[laughter]
26:2526 minutes, 25 secondsYou know, I I’ll tell you why I like this. I’ll tell you why I like this.
26:2926 minutes, 29 secondsAlthough I I have to say to be truthful, I would have gone back again. But I’ll tell you what, because that’s I
26:3626 minutes, 36 secondsYou and me probably would have, but crop. No, he was like, “Okay, but I’ll tell you why I like this. It’s like, hey, you know what?
26:4426 minutes, 44 secondsWhatever it is is the way it’s supposed to be, right? And uh we’ll just incorporate this into what it is. Yeah, exactly.
26:5126 minutes, 51 secondsI I as a brain tumor survivor, I like that.
26:5526 minutes, 55 secondsI you know, as an engineer, not quite as much, but I I don’t know that I could do tick breast. I could do I could do base rest.
27:0227 minutes, 2 secondsBut you know what? [laughter] You know, you said something to me earlier that that that I think was more pertinent here, which is that what we do, and I
27:1027 minutes, 10 secondssay this to my students all the time, what we do is such a mix of left and right brain, of technology and art. We are using technology to create art.
27:2027 minutes, 20 secondsYeah.
27:2127 minutes, 21 secondsAnd in doing so, you know, we are basically bridging that gap. And especially if you’re like yourself and
27:2927 minutes, 29 secondsmyself, an engineer producer type, right? We’re constantly having to transverse those two worlds. Oh yeah.
27:3527 minutes, 35 secondsYou know, how am I going to capture this idea that I have in my head and I have to use these complex tools in order to do it?
27:4327 minutes, 43 secondsYeah. You know, I don’t have to, but I choose to, you know, and that’s and you know, that’s when you start also getting into that whole concept here of like,
27:5127 minutes, 51 secondsokay, so you know, how deep am I going to go down the rabbit hole? Yeah.
27:5627 minutes, 56 seconds[cough] Now I want to ask you a few other things because you know part of what’s
28:0328 minutes, 3 secondsfascinating to me is um you know I have worked with over the years of my career um people with a lot of different varieties of disabilities.
28:1328 minutes, 13 secondsSure. and um had the experience of for the most part being blessed with people
28:2128 minutes, 21 secondswho did not allow those disabilities to be a hindrance at all. And in fact, just like you,
28:2928 minutes, 29 secondsthey kind of used them to enhance certain things. Right.
28:3428 minutes, 34 secondsAnd I love that. And I’m I’m I would like some feedback from on you on
28:4228 minutes, 42 secondsnot just becoming I mean obviously you were a musician from an early age but becoming technically adept with all of
28:4928 minutes, 49 secondsthis gear um especially as a non-sighted person having to learn some of this stuff having to wade your way through a
28:5728 minutes, 57 secondslot of stuff that wasn’t necessarily built for people to decipher you know I mean I’m always I’m always fascinated by
29:0429 minutes, 4 secondssome of that stuff. Um, you know, I heard always heard great stories about Stevie and how he navigated things, you know.
29:1129 minutes, 11 secondsNo, I will tell you, um, you know, it’s it’s
29:1929 minutes, 19 secondsreally, really, really believe, and I mean I mean, I’ll put my money where my mouth is here. Um, I think one’s
29:2829 minutes, 28 secondslimitations are just as profoundly useful as one’s abilities. And I have always had the
29:3629 minutes, 36 secondsidea that um the the the choices
29:4329 minutes, 43 secondsthat I make um are are are for me to
29:5329 minutes, 53 secondsdecide if they’re good or bad. In other words, like like I can I can decide what effect something has on me. Um, I believe joy is a choice at some point.
30:0430 minutes, 4 secondsNow, what I want to say to be clear is that I’m not saying you shouldn’t be mad or you can’t be sad or you can’t be frustrated or any of those things.
30:1430 minutes, 14 secondsThey’re all appropriate human emotions, but at some point they have to be temporary because at some point you have
30:2230 minutes, 22 secondsto get back to living. So, how do you do that? you you you you say to yourself,
30:2930 minutes, 29 secondsI’m the only thing that can make me happy or sad or whatever. It is my choice on how to react to these things.
30:3930 minutes, 39 secondsAnd so, generally speaking, I choose to be joyful. Now, if I was happy all the time, you should probably have me examined because that’s not normal.
30:4830 minutes, 48 secondsThat’s not healthy. Okay? It’s it’s it’s healthy to live in reality. So I I’m prefacing all that to say that I do
30:5730 minutes, 57 secondsthink that there are some advantages um that I have as a blind person uh that
31:0631 minutes, 6 secondsmy sighted counterparts do not have. Uh that being said, it goes the other way too, right? There’s some advantages that
31:1331 minutes, 13 secondsmy sight counterparts have that I don’t have. So, uh, what what I love about this is that this is part of, and you
31:2131 minutes, 21 secondsknow, I I believe in this. Um, this is part of why I think diversity is so awesome because we don’t need a bunch of
31:3131 minutes, 31 secondsthe same stuff. Give me you give me and and this is getting back to like becoming a better producer. My my dear
31:3831 minutes, 38 secondsfriend, one of my favorite people in the whole world, Mr. Randall Braramblelet.
31:4131 minutes, 41 secondsHe’s a fantastic solo artist. Uh, you may not know his name, but he’s played with Traffic and Steve Winwood and Greg Alman and Friends and Bonnie Rates
31:5031 minutes, 50 secondsrecorded a couple songs that he’s written and he’s just an incredible musician. And he said to me, Joey, what
31:5731 minutes, 57 secondsdo you what do you want me to play on this song of yours? I was like, oh, just just do you. I hired you just to be you.
32:0432 minutes, 4 secondsLike, that’s what I want. So like you you will by virtue of being who you are and me wanting you for this piece, you
32:1232 minutes, 12 secondswill do what I want without me having to tell you. But so I I do think um the fact that I can’t see uh couple couple
32:2132 minutes, 21 secondsthings. The first thing is I am kind of known uh as uh the analog boy, right?
32:2932 minutes, 29 secondsSo, you know, when people come to me, it’s often because uh they know that I have a a pretty robust collection of
32:3732 minutes, 37 secondsoutboard gear, especially for the area in the country where I am. Um if we were in LA, you know, wouldn’t be wouldn’t wouldn’t be as impressive. Uh but, you
32:4532 minutes, 45 secondsknow, there’s that and and then and then um I use it well and appropriately. uh
32:5232 minutes, 52 secondswhich is so I don’t do anything like the first thing I do as a blind person uh and I make all my students start their
33:0133 minutes, 1 secondsemester with this when I was teaching at university level um today we’re going to close our eyes you’re not going to everything we do today you can keep your
33:0933 minutes, 9 secondseyes closed the reason for that is because we have gotten to a point where
33:1733 minutes, 17 secondspeople are using their eyes to mix records and It’s not that I’m not jealous of the
33:2433 minutes, 24 secondsability, okay? I’m totally jealous that you can see the meter or the spectrograph or the oscilloscope or the
33:3133 minutes, 31 secondsphase or the grid or you know, all that stuff would be very handy. Uh but um you
33:3833 minutes, 38 secondsknow there’s uh I don’t know 80 years of music that didn’t have any of that stuff. That’s amazing. And so my point
33:4633 minutes, 46 secondsis like there’s this kind of thing with some of the younger people coming out of school now where it’s like well um I’m going to look at the I’m going to look
33:5533 minutes, 55 secondsat the track and I’m going to look at this and let’s see what and my thing is like well let us let us listen to what
34:0134 minutes, 1 secondwe have before we make any decisions and let us let the music tell us what it
34:0734 minutes, 7 secondsneeds and it will and then if you need to time align or pitch correct or then you can do those things. But you don’t
34:1534 minutes, 15 secondsneed to start off with that as you’re like, “Oh, I have to do this.” And and the reason you don’t need to is because, and I think this is pretty profound and
34:2234 minutes, 22 secondsalso like very simple, uh music is consumed by the ear.
34:2934 minutes, 29 secondsSo, it’s foolish to use some other sense to make the critical, you know, judgments about about the music. So, I I
34:3934 minutes, 39 secondsthink as a blind person, I default a little bit better to letting the music speak to me before getting any
34:4734 minutes, 47 secondspreconceived notions from visual data that I might have access to. Um, so that’s one thing. The other thing is
34:5534 minutes, 55 secondswith the analog gear, I was pushed to it because it actually, and this is sort of
35:0435 minutes, 4 secondsprobably going to surprise people, but it actually is more accessible than the computer for me.
35:0935 minutes, 9 secondsOh, that makes sense because you have dedicated knobs.
35:1235 minutes, 12 secondsThe third knob for the left does the same thing every time.
35:1535 minutes, 15 secondsYou know, it doesn’t. So [clears throat] if if you have the word that I dread the most soft function, like if you have a
35:2135 minutes, 21 secondsif you have a if you have a soft key, then that changes its function based on the screen. If you can’t read the
35:2935 minutes, 29 secondsscreen, you’ve got a problem. So it turns out that I ended up liking the vibe of analog anyway. And I think that
35:3835 minutes, 38 secondswhat you should do as a producer, engineer, you know, what artist, whatever, is like, you know, use the stuff that gets you the sound you want.
35:4635 minutes, 46 secondsthe fastest. So, if it’s a plugin, I’ll use a plugin. But I do like the character of the analog gear. And I do
35:5435 minutes, 54 secondslike the physical manipula manipulation of the controls. I I I I feel like I have a better you I feel like I I have a better sense of what the music needs.
36:0536 minutes, 5 secondsAnd I will tell you that I actually think sometimes, not all the time, but sometimes I kind of like the fact that I
36:1336 minutes, 13 secondscan be imprecise and I can turn the knob until I hear a difference that I like as opposed to
36:2136 minutes, 21 secondsokay.5 decel.5 decel.5, you know, like I can do an imprecise volume move if I want. That’s funny because usually when
36:2936 minutes, 29 secondsI’m tweaking something, especially well, whether analog or plug-in, but a lot of times I will intentionally over tweak. Yeah.
36:3736 minutes, 37 secondsSo that I can hear that difference and then back it off.
36:3936 minutes, 39 secondsThat’s a perfectly valid way to do. I love, you know, and and I love that to, you know, to your other point, I thought it was interesting that you mentioned this. I have always when I’ve
36:4836 minutes, 48 secondsbeen mixing and this goes back to like when I started working in studios and working with my own stuff, you know,
36:5636 minutes, 56 secondsI always closed my eyes when I mixed because I always felt like it allowed me to concentrate more absolutely on the hearing.
37:0237 minutes, 2 secondsWell, you know, here’s the interesting thing and I and I’ve thought a lot about this. Um, you know, you right now
37:1037 minutes, 10 secondsare taking in information whether you want to or not because you see me.
37:1837 minutes, 18 secondsSure. Sure.
37:1937 minutes, 19 secondsAnd you can’t control that. And your brain’s a pattern recognition machine.
37:2337 minutes, 23 secondsAnd so your brain is processing. I see a light. I see a chair. I see a you Oh, dude. I’m sitting in a in a room full of equipment. Are you kidding? I
37:3237 minutes, 32 secondssee an L2A. I see. You know, come on. I mean, you know, who who are you talking to here? You know, it is hipper than that.
37:3937 minutes, 39 secondsI’m I’m having trouble just keeping my, you know, looking at you because I’m looking around at all this gear.
37:4337 minutes, 43 secondsWell, you can test the SSL later in whatever sort of manner you need.
37:4637 minutes, 46 secondsWhatever gets you through the day, I’ll just step out.
37:4837 minutes, 48 secondsBut, you know, I’m just I’m just sitting here. I’m I’m like, you know, I might as well be behind a bakery counter or something.
37:5337 minutes, 53 secondsOh, yeah. Actually, so but but I mean, like, you’re processing this information. So, I’m not
38:0038 minutesUhhuh. And what that means is that I I do not believe that my ears are physiologically better or different.
38:1138 minutes, 11 secondsWhat I do believe is I know how to process the information I’ve given in a more efficient manner for two reasons.
38:1838 minutes, 18 secondsThe first reason is if you have a cell phone and you got 10 apps open, it’s going to run slower than if you got two
38:2738 minutes, 27 secondsapps open. [laughter] So I ain’t got no eyes. So that so your video is not working. Yeah. Yeah. So that bandwidth is free.
38:3538 minutes, 35 secondsYeah.
38:3538 minutes, 35 secondsSo and the other thing is now I told you earlier, you know, I believe in science.
38:4038 minutes, 40 secondsI believe in spirit. Well, one of the things that seems to be confirmed with science and I’m a peerreview kind of
38:4738 minutes, 47 secondsguy. I like to see the numbers. Um but but uh so I have not seen enough data to make me convinced. uh but I it does
38:5638 minutes, 56 secondstrack with my experience and that is there is some information that seems to suggest that if you go blind early
39:0339 minutes, 3 secondsenough in life your visual cortex will start processing audio and that feels right to me because I know that I
39:1239 minutes, 12 secondsprocess audio faster than most people when when I listen to audio not for pleasure but for technical reasons I’ve got it cranked up pretty fast and you
39:2139 minutes, 21 secondsknow people will hear my screen reader in the background go What language was that? I was like, “That’s English.” [laughter] And they’re like, “Oh, I thought it was Cantonese.” And I’m like,
39:2839 minutes, 28 seconds”Oh, why would you think I know Cantonese?” I mean, I’m flattered, but you know, most Americans only speak one language and that not perfectly. So, um,
39:3739 minutes, 37 secondsbut anyway, yes. So, I mean, I crank I crank the speed up. Um, I I mean, you know, and my wife and I when we first got together, just to give you an idea
39:4639 minutes, 46 secondsof what I’m talking about here, like I think real fast. I I talk real fast. Um, I have noticed I have decided to lean
39:5339 minutes, 53 secondsinto it rather than trying to tamp myself down and be slower. I’ve just decided, oh well, it is what it is. I’m going to lean into it.
40:0140 minutes, 1 secondDo you do caffeine?
40:0240 minutes, 2 secondsI I I do. And I don’t know if it works or not, but we pretend that it makes me feel better. Um, because I do caffeine. It slows me down.
40:1040 minutes, 10 secondsOh, interesting. Well, I I you know, um, Michael Polland’s incredible journalist and he’s got a great book on on tea and coffee that’s pretty fascinating. Oh, he’s got a lot of great books.
40:1940 minutes, 19 secondsBut but he says, “You read the omnivores for lima?” I have not, but it’s Well, I mean, I’ve got it, but I hadn’t read it yet. So, so he says that caffeine rather than amping
40:2740 minutes, 27 secondsyou up, what it does is it binds itself to your cells so you don’t feel the fatigue. Um, so I guess that’s what it does. I’m assuming he knows more than I
40:3540 minutes, 35 secondsdo, but anyway, like I not being like not having adrenaline, I drink a lot of coffee and I at least imagine that it
40:4340 minutes, 43 secondsmakes me feel better. It could be the placebo effect. I don’t know. But it gets me through the day, so who cares?
40:4840 minutes, 48 secondsSo, but and I find Daniel, here’s the weird part. The worse I feel, the more the chipper I am, right? The more talkative [laughter] this is this this
40:5640 minutes, 56 secondsis really true. The more talkative I am means I feel really nasty and I’m trying to distract myself.
41:0241 minutes, 2 secondsOh, well, I hope you’re I hope you’re okay.
41:0441 minutes, 4 secondsI’m fine. I’m fine. [laughter] But but but I’m just saying like, you know, it it’s it’s it’s my defense mechanism. you know, like I know how to I know how to
41:1041 minutes, 10 secondsshift my attention away so that the physical discomforts are there but not in control. So anyway, I was just going
41:1841 minutes, 18 secondsto say, but I really do think fast, talk, fast. And when when my wife and I are first dating, she would say something to me and I would immediately pop back with something like whatever.
41:2841 minutes, 28 secondsAnd she was like, “He’s not even listening to what I’m saying. Like, how could he possibly?” And then and then later she goes after after a couple
41:3641 minutes, 36 secondsweeks of this she’s like oh my god he just thinks that fast. Like she’s like he did hear me and just made a judgment call super fast.
41:4441 minutes, 44 secondsAnd that’s just kind of how I am. Like I I really have and I’m not saying this is good or bad. It just it is. I have two speeds. Full speed ahead and off. And I
41:5441 minutes, 54 secondsresent the sleep. Like I don’t want to sleep. I want to make records. I want to talk to friends like you. I want to I
42:0142 minutes, 1 secondwant to be outdoed. And it’s not morbid, but I am keenly aware from the times that I almost didn’t make it, which were
42:0842 minutes, 8 secondswhich were numerous as a child. I am keenly aware of the finite time that I have. Again, I don’t I’m I’m not sad
42:1542 minutes, 15 secondsabout it. It’s not morbid. It it but but I am aware and I absolutely I got stuff to do.
42:2242 minutes, 22 secondsI’m right there with you, man. I’m right there with you to make, you know. I got And that’s why I do as many things as I do, you know? People are always like,
42:3142 minutes, 31 seconds”Well, you know, how do you have time for all this stuff?” Well, how do you not?
42:3442 minutes, 34 secondsWell, and and my wife was like, I mean, she doesn’t mean this the way this sounds, but like she’s like, “It’s good that you can’t see because if you could, I would never see you. You would be in
42:4342 minutes, 43 secondsthe basement soldering or something.” And you know, Joey doesn’t solder. So, I was like, “You don’t solder?” I know. I want to, but like I tried it once and it was really not good.
42:5142 minutes, 51 secondsWell, you know, you know the the basic rule of soldering. if it smells like chicken and you’re holding it wrong.
42:5742 minutes, 57 seconds[laughter]
42:5842 minutes, 58 secondsSo, let’s let’s cover a little bit more stuff.
43:0043 minutesYou have been something of an ambassador for um for not only uh not only visually
43:1143 minutes, 11 secondsdeprived people, but pretty much I mean, you know, you’ve been telling me for a long time about how you work with a lot of other artists. I see that the console
43:1843 minutes, 18 secondshere is very accessible. It’s it’s you know um everything in this room makes sense even though there’s nothing really
43:2743 minutes, 27 secondsspecial about it. I mean, yeah, you know, a cited person could work in here just as easily and, you know, but how is it for you
43:3543 minutes, 35 secondswhen you when you think about planning something out uh musically [clears throat] when when you’re
43:4343 minutes, 43 secondsthinking about like how you’re going to do stuff, things like that, is there is there a conceptual thing
43:5043 minutes, 50 secondsgoing on in your head as far as like I’m going to do a workflow or anything like that? I mean, how do you how do you address other people with disabilities as well?
43:5943 minutes, 59 secondsYeah. Yeah. Well, that’s So, here’s the thing. Um, I am proud to tell you that
44:0644 minutes, 6 secondsuh a friend of mine said to me, oh, I don’t know, back in 22, I think it was, or something like that, or maybe, I
44:1444 minutes, 14 secondscan’t remember, but anyway, a few years ago, uh, you need to be on the, uh, Grammy board. And I was like, I I I do
44:2244 minutes, 22 secondsnot get up in Atlanta enough to to to do that. I mean, I’m, you know, I’m not going to win. And she’s like, yeah, you
44:3044 minutes, 30 secondswill. I was like, I’m not. And she’s like, you’d be surprised how well you’re known up here. I was like, well, that’s very gracious, but you know, I just
44:3844 minutes, 38 secondsdon’t believe it. And she’s like, just just do it. So, I eventually said, okay, you know what? I’m this conversation’s
44:4444 minutes, 44 secondsover. I’ll just do it. So, um, yeah. So, I ran and I won and no one was more
44:5244 minutes, 52 secondssurprised than I was. And so, I have a I’m a governor on the Grammy board. And why that’s important is because if you
45:0045 minuteswant to make change, uh, you need to be on the inside. Yep.
45:0445 minutes, 4 secondsAnd, uh, and so then I got appointed to be what’s called a
45:1245 minutes, 12 secondsdream ambassador. And the dream ambassador is a national seat um where
45:1945 minutes, 19 secondsyou report to the dream committee which is a national seat and then you also have to report to your chapter. Um so
45:2745 minutes, 27 secondsits function is to amplify underserved uh markets within the recording academy.
45:3545 minutes, 35 secondsSo you know for example there’s women in music um it’s called women in the mix is the is the thing. So you know and you
45:4245 minutes, 42 secondsyou know you help with with um with with with you know making sure that those voices are amplified and they have an
45:4945 minutes, 49 secondsopportunity to succeed and there’s so there’s eight different categories. So obviously, you know, my specialty, I
45:5645 minutes, 56 secondsmean, I can I can be part of all of that and support all that and I do, but my specialty really obviously comes with
46:0346 minutes, 3 secondswith disability. That’s something that I really know and and it’s, you know, it’s it’s something that I have a a heart for
46:1146 minutes, 11 secondsservice for and it’s something that I can really, you know, sort of truly make a difference. Um, and one of the things
46:2046 minutes, 20 secondsthat’s really cool is that we have come up with um the different the dream ambassadors. I said there’s like three
46:2746 minutes, 27 secondsof us that really work. I mean, everybody worked on it, but there were three of us that were really like gung-ho about this. Um, and we have come
46:3746 minutes, 37 secondsup with a document that is an accessibility best practice document for events. And so now um because they
46:4646 minutes, 46 secondswanted me to shut up, [laughter] stop, stop, stop telling us this. Uh we I have I gathered the support uh that I needed
46:5546 minutes, 55 secondsand we have now made the document uh not only a recording academy internal document, but a document that we can
47:0347 minutes, 3 secondsgive to everyone. And so I’m I’m going to give it to NAM. I’m going to give it to I’ve already given it to focalized international and AES and all these
47:1147 minutes, 11 secondsthings because and the reason I’m telling you all this the reason this is gerine is because I work really hard to
47:2047 minutes, 20 secondsthink about every conceivable need that someone might have to be able to function autonomously in any given
47:2947 minutes, 29 secondsspace. And of course, I’m not perfect and if it hasn’t been my lived experience, I may not even think of it.
47:3847 minutes, 38 secondsSo that’s why all the dream ambassadors like you know all these different people with different backgrounds and you know that’s why it’s so important that we all
47:4647 minutes, 46 secondshave this conversation and this document is a living document meaning that we invite people to critique it and tell us
47:5447 minutes, 54 secondswhat we forgot or what we didn’t think of. So I’m very keen on that. So I for a
48:0148 minutes, 1 secondlong time, you know, blindness was, you know, pretty much my main um sort of focus when I advocating for disability
48:1148 minutes, 11 secondsbecause that was my lived experience, right? So that’s kind of pro, you know, no pun intended.
48:1648 minutes, 16 secondsYeah. No. Oh, please pun intended. Um so so [clears throat] then though in in uh as a latent issue to the brain tumor uh
48:2448 minutes, 24 secondsI lost uh my right hip and I was like walking around and then like one day I started having pain but I was
48:3348 minutes, 33 secondsmisdiagnosed with like just bcitis and then one day I couldn’t walk at all and I was like uh okay this is not good.
48:4148 minutes, 41 secondsTurns out it has something called a vascular necrosis which I’m smart enough to know what necrosis means and that’s not good. Yeah.
48:4848 minutes, 48 secondsAnd so the root the root of that word is scary.
48:5148 minutes, 51 secondsYeah. Exactly. I’m like oh okay this can’t be good. So what it is apparently with my type of tumor later in life that
48:5848 minutes, 58 secondskind of thing with your joints is not uncommon. Now they didn’t tell me this when I was a kid. I don’t know if they were just like didn’t know or like he’s had enough on him. Let’s leave this part
49:0749 minutes, 7 secondsout. [laughter] And you know what? You’ll find out later. I’m okay with either one of those. But but but in all serious so so
49:1349 minutes, 13 secondsmy right hip literally disintegrated into just like dust.
49:1949 minutes, 19 secondsAnd uh at the time I was directing a musical. And u it was a Rocky Horror Show.
49:2649 minutes, 26 secondsOh wow.
49:2749 minutes, 27 secondsAnd uh and I uh my my wife and I met while I was in a wheelchair.
49:3549 minutes, 35 secondsWow. So, like all all my dates are blind dates, right? But [laughter]
49:4249 minutes, 42 secondsbut but we got set up on a real blind date. The first and only one I ever had.
49:4749 minutes, 47 secondsAnd I thought to myself, now I’m blind, strike one. I’m in a wheelchair, strike two. I’m a musician, strike three.
49:5649 minutes, 56 seconds[laughter]
49:5749 minutes, 57 secondsAnd I’m like, I am not at my best right now. Is this really the time to meet a new woman? And then my real nature
50:0650 minutes, 6 secondsasserted itself. I was like, what’s the worst that could happen? Well, the worst that could happen is at the time of this recording, we’ve been married 23 years.
50:1350 minutes, 13 secondsSo there you go. That’s the worst that can happen. [laughter] So, but my point is that I thought as a blind person, I was aware
50:2150 minutes, 21 secondsof the ramps and the rails and the parking spaces. And I was like, “Ah, my brothers and sisters in wheelchairs got
50:2950 minutes, 29 secondsthis covered. They’re good.” Turns out that is not the case. and that there are so many places totally inaccessible to
50:3750 minutes, 37 secondswheelchairs. I had no idea and you can’t blame me for not knowing because you know it was my lived experience. So I think it’s really
50:4550 minutes, 45 secondsimportant to come to the table with that perspective like this is not a shame on you for not knowing what I need. Um but
50:5350 minutes, 53 secondsbut what it what it is is the idea of and it seems simple but it’s the idea
51:0251 minutes, 2 secondsthat we should go to the people who have the need and and ask them what it is they do need. There’s a dear friend of
51:1151 minutes, 11 secondsmine that does a lot of research with University College of London and they came up with this uh haptic uh which is
51:1951 minutes, 19 secondsvibrating for those who are not familiar with it. uh this haptic vest and they they put it on the blind people and
51:2651 minutes, 26 secondsdifferent vibrations cued these blind musicians into what the conductor was doing. Wow.
51:3451 minutes, 34 secondsVery advanced, very sophisticated.
51:3751 minutes, 37 secondsBut turns out that [clears throat] because they did not ask their target audience what they wanted to know, it
51:4451 minutes, 44 secondswas information overload and wasn’t useful. So they spent all this time and money and it just wasn’t useful. So that
51:5251 minutes, 52 secondsthat’s another thing that I kind of always come to the table with is like, okay, whoever we’re trying to talk about, it’s important to ask them what
52:0152 minutes, 1 secondthey need. You should, you know, go to your target audience and say, I am not blind. What do you need? Or I am not in a wheelchair. What do you need?
52:1052 minutes, 10 secondsAnd there are going to be so many variables in each of those cases.
52:1352 minutes, 13 secondsBlind blind is a huge umbrella. I was going to say blind is a spectrum too in that sense you know you’ve got people who are
52:2052 minutes, 20 secondsjust slightly visually impaired you know to the point of of you know not being able to lead a normal life all the way
52:2652 minutes, 26 secondsdown to and and not just that but I mean if you think about people in a wheelchair they’re in wheelchairs for different reasons and each of them has a
52:3452 minutes, 34 secondsdifferent lived experience of you know why am I you know I mean one of the artists that I worked with she had had a a tumor in her spine
52:4352 minutes, 43 secondsright uh at the age of five and she was in a wheelchair since the age of five, right?
52:4752 minutes, 47 secondsYou know, and uh you know, another person was in a wheelchair because he had lost his legs in a car accident. Absolutely.
52:5452 minutes, 54 secondsAnd and those are two different scenarios and just the fact that they’re in a wheelchair is it’s a commonality, but their lived experience is going to
53:0253 minutes, 2 secondsbe different and therefore in a lot of cases they’re going to need something different.
53:0653 minutes, 6 secondsAnd you know, it’s not it’s not just physical support uh but there’s an emotional support, mental health support
53:1353 minutes, 13 secondsas well. If you That’s huge.
53:1653 minutes, 16 secondsIf you So, in a way, the fact that I’ve been blind my whole life, you know, my
53:2353 minutes, 23 secondsexperience is a little easier than if you’ve lived 50 years with eyesight and then lose your eyesight.
53:2953 minutes, 29 secondsThat’s true. So, you know, like there’s there’s there’s a gentleman here in town who [snorts] was a choir director for a million years
53:3653 minutes, 36 secondsand a high school coral director and he’s 70 years old and then just recently lost his eyesight and it was very
53:4353 minutes, 43 secondstraumatic for him. Um, and really he struggled, you know, with that. Um, and several blind people, including myself,
53:5253 minutes, 52 secondsuh, came to him and said, um, let me show you, uh, what all you can do. And
53:5953 minutes, 59 secondsuh this is not this is not the end. You know, this is I I do not blame you if you’re frustrated. I do not blame you if
54:0854 minutes, 8 secondsyou’re scared. I I think it’s perfectly okay to say this isn’t fair. Why be God? Okay, that’s all fine. That’s all fine.
54:1654 minutes, 16 secondsUm but now that we’ve done those things, right? Um you have your grieving period. Now it’s time to take action.
54:2154 minutes, 21 secondsNow let’s let me show you what all you can what all you can do. And so I can’t take I mean another friend of mine has done most of the heavy lifting to be
54:2954 minutes, 29 secondshonest but you know I’ve I brought him into the studio and and you know we’ve done some stuff and you know he he sing we’re going record some stuff and you know so we’re going to stuff but anyway
54:3754 minutes, 37 secondsum you know so that’s it’s kind of interesting but I I just think you know one of the other things is we talk about um things that I never thought of before
54:4554 minutes, 45 secondswith you know um people that are sort of neurodeiverse or you know and and [clears throat] like need different things. So I I think about that now and
54:5354 minutes, 53 secondsI never thought about it before because I I didn’t know about it. But when I go to NAM I think, oh the stuff that the MIDI association is doing with the with the u all the
55:0255 minutes, 2 secondsdiversity stuff, they’ve got people up there who are physically challenged in so many different ways. Amazing and are still making music, you know,
55:1155 minutes, 11 secondspeople who are quadripolgic, who are, you know, who are able to only move stuff with their eyes.
55:1755 minutes, 17 secondsYeah. Which is which I just can’t even imagine. I mean, I can’t. And you know, I’m sure you you probably know like the great folks from audio modeling and they
55:2555 minutes, 25 secondsthey do some really cool stuff with that. Um I I uh I tease those things.
55:2955 minutes, 29 secondsIt’s like the the most boring company name ever. But but [laughter] I’m just kidding. I’m just kidding, guys. Uh keep keep those free plugins coming.
55:3855 minutes, 38 secondsSo, but uh but in all seriousness, it’s like, you know, I never thought about needing the quiet space. I like noise, you know, like I like I like because for
55:4755 minutes, 47 secondsme it’s just information. Like for me, all the noise is like I I’m hungry for information. Yeah. And uh and I will
55:5555 minutes, 55 secondsoccasionally ask my wife or ask a friend or ask one of my uh employees, hey, what are you doing?
56:0056 minutesAnd it’s not because I’m checking up with you. It’s just like I I’m just sitting here, nothing going on, and I’m wondering what’s happening on the side of the room when I’m just sitting here.
56:0956 minutes, 9 secondsSo anyway, my point is like I like all that stuff like noise and racket and yeah, and but then there are people that really need to to get away from it. Uh,
56:1756 minutes, 17 secondsand then I was really excited uh to find the Atlanta Hawks, which is our basketball team. And I will admit to you
56:2556 minutes, 25 secondsthat I’m not don’t know a whole bunch about basketball. U, but our I was asked to beta test some tech for the blind.
56:3356 minutes, 33 secondsUh, it’s called One Court and it’s a device about the size of an iPad. It has
56:3956 minutes, 39 secondsa rubber mat on the top that has the court or the field of the sport in
56:4656 minutes, 46 secondsrelief and underneath it are little motors and so they can make it feel like that you are tracking the motion of the
56:5456 minutes, 54 secondsball and so you can feel the ball moving all around the court and stuff like that. So it kind of helps you to see the game. Wow.
57:0057 minutesAnd uh so I’d never [clears throat] been to a basketball game before and I I didn’t really know what to expect. It was a lot more fun than I thought it
57:0757 minutes, 7 secondswould be. But I uh what I was excited about I I took a side trip there. But what I was excited about was like they had a quiet room. I was like, “Oh my
57:1557 minutes, 15 secondsgod, this is like this is so cool.” Like if you need to get away if if the arena becomes too much, um you know, here here you go.
57:2357 minutes, 23 secondsAnd I like this is fantastic. So I think about all those things in the studio space. So, as I continue to expand my
57:3357 minutes, 33 secondsfacility, the thing that I always think about is how can I welcome more people,
57:4057 minutes, 40 secondsmake their journey more enjoyable, make the art the focus, um, you know, take away any barriers to, uh, accessibility
57:4957 minutes, 49 secondsor anything like that. Um, and so, you know, uh, I I’m one of the things I’m real big on and I kind of preach about is like big bathrooms. like you need to
57:5857 minutes, 58 secondshave a bathroom that you can get a wheelchair into and not just get it in but be able to turn around. I mean, you know, all these things. So, I was like,
58:0658 minutes, 6 secondsI don’t I need another ISO booth uh less than I need an accessible bathroom, you know. [laughter] It’s like it’s like I I
58:1458 minutes, 14 secondsbelieve everyone should be able to have the dignity uh of being able to use the restroom in comfort, right? You know, I
58:2058 minutes, 20 secondsI will that’s important. And then we think about people that are are of shorter stature. Uh, you know, we’re thinking about things like, well, maybe
58:2958 minutes, 29 secondswe should do consoles that slightly tilt forward. The angle can be changed so that uh, you know, that reaching it’s
58:3658 minutes, 36 secondsnot such a challenge. Um, you know, again, having a quiet room uh, for people that that need to get away. Uh,
58:4358 minutes, 43 secondsalso having a massage table uh where if you’re in a wheelchair for eight hours at a session, you can get out of that
58:5158 minutes, 51 secondsthing and stretch because let me tell you being in one like your back hurts, you know, it starts it’s uncomfortable. So, I mean, you know, all these things are are we
58:5958 minutes, 59 secondstake into consideration. Uh, but I think the biggest part is, you know, at least for me, like making
59:0659 minutes, 6 secondssure there’s plenty of room to move. Uh so that no matter what your ambulatory state is, like you have room to roll or
59:1459 minutes, 14 secondswalk or Sure. or or or whatever you need. You know, I’ve got a friend who’s a a fabulous musician and and she has a
59:2159 minutes, 21 secondscondition that um requires her to sometimes be in a wheelchair, but sometimes she doesn’t have to be. So like it kind of depends. uh it’s you
59:3059 minutes, 30 secondsknow and there are people that have MS where they have flare-ups and like like today I don’t need anything but a cane but tomorrow I need a scooter and you
59:3859 minutes, 38 secondsknow different stuff like that. So you you have people that have um you know some some accessibility needs that actually change depending on the day. Uh
59:4759 minutes, 47 secondsso that can be a you know real challenge and I will tell you one other thing uh and then we’ll move on but um recently I took part in the AES accessibility
59:5559 minutes, 55 secondsconference. as I was part of that committee. Uh, and I did at at the request of my colleagues, I did a video
1:00:021 hour, 2 secondsof of this studio and talked about accessibility like why what is it that I have that that that qualifies in making
1:00:111 hour, 11 secondsthe studio accessible. So, we talked about the analog gear and how the the tactile nature of it and and how, you know, third less always does the same
1:00:191 hour, 19 secondsthing. We talked about the screen readers that tell us what’s on the screen, you know, most of the time, not all the time. sometime sometimes it don’t [laughter] work. Um, but one of
1:00:271 hour, 27 secondsthe things that I hit on which I just told you about was like the the large restroom and one of the young people that was uh on the the at the
1:00:351 hour, 35 secondsconference, it was a virtual conference and and one of them said, you know, um, I noticed that you have very bright
1:00:421 hour, 42 secondslight in the restroom. It’s a it’s a real bright, you know, fluorescent. And she said, “You know, there are people
1:00:501 hour, 50 secondsthat uh have light sensitivity, but are like [laughter] I didn’t know.” I was like I was like, “I don’t how would you know?
1:00:581 hour, 58 secondsI don’t give you that.” I was like, and like [laughter] I was like, so she’s like, “Can you can you like dim that?” I said, “Well, you know,
1:01:051 hour, 1 minute, 5 secondsI don’t think that a fluorescent can be dimmed, but I can replace the fluorescent light with a light that can’t be dimmed.” Well, what you can do, in fact, is to
1:01:141 hour, 1 minute, 14 secondsreplace it with an LED that then you can even adjust the temperature on. Well, that’s yeah, those are the kind of things that this is why getting together and talking about this is so exciting.
1:01:221 hour, 1 minute, 22 secondsAnd she also mentioned something else.
1:01:231 hour, 1 minute, 23 secondsAgain, I never heard of this, but apparently there are people that like can get headaches from different colors of light. That makes sense.
1:01:311 hour, 1 minute, 31 secondsAnd so she was like, “Hey, you know, do you have the ability to like change the color of the lights in the room?” Like like I don’t currently, but I can’t see
1:01:391 hour, 1 minute, 39 secondswhy I can’t make that happen. So, you know, I’m learning new things all the time. and and um and then you know
1:01:461 hour, 1 minute, 46 secondsanother colleague uh said to me um you know uh one of the things that that she has where she spent her money in her
1:01:541 hour, 1 minute, 54 secondsstudio and her studio is like one room you know like there’s not a separate control room or anything um and it’s kind of a smaller space but uh she said
1:02:011 hour, 2 minutes, 1 secondyou the big thing that I’ve done is I have an HVAC system that is basically like hospital air quality and this this
1:02:101 hour, 2 minutes, 10 secondsway you know people that have some immune issues uh are protected. Uhhuh. And I think that’s amazing.
1:02:181 hour, 2 minutes, 18 secondsSo there’s [clears throat] all these wonderful things that we can and should be talking about and you know the fact of the matter is I mean are you going to
1:02:261 hour, 2 minutes, 26 secondsmake a world that’s completely accessible one day but but you know it’s going to be a process. It’s going to take time.
1:02:321 hour, 2 minutes, 32 secondsI don’t know if you ever can because as we said so many people so many experiences are different. Well that’s true.
1:02:381 hour, 2 minutes, 38 secondsBut I think if you think about yourself and the way that you have adapted Yeah. Anybody who has a disability Yeah.
1:02:461 hour, 2 minutes, 46 secondsthey’re going to do their part to adapt. That’s right.
1:02:491 hour, 2 minutes, 49 secondsSo, all we can hope to do, I think, is to try and make it a little bit easier for them to do so. Yeah. Well, that’s that’s a good point.
1:02:571 hour, 2 minutes, 57 secondsYou’re you’re right in the fact that
1:02:581 hour, 2 minutes, 58 seconds[clears throat] it is a uh [snorts]
1:03:001 hour, 3 minutesthe more you know, the more there is to do. I mean, like, you know, so that’s great. But I do think one of the things
1:03:071 hour, 3 minutes, 7 secondsthat I really do um want to kind of, you know, say is that um it’s incumbent
1:03:161 hour, 3 minutes, 16 secondsupon me as the person with the need to be able to broadcast that in a way that
1:03:241 hour, 3 minutes, 24 secondsis uh convivial uh [laughter] and and a way that is
1:03:311 hour, 3 minutes, 31 secondsinformative. Um, and so it’s, you know, I have work to do, too.
1:03:381 hour, 3 minutes, 38 secondsNothing in my life, uh, and I’m not complaining, this is just the truth, has ever been what I needed, so I had to
1:03:441 hour, 3 minutes, 44 secondsbuild it. And I’m okay with that. Um, you know, from from from, you know, from literally like my town, we talked about this early, actually.
1:03:531 hour, 3 minutes, 53 secondsAll the cameras were rolling, but um I did a TV show here in town for three years because I was tired of hearing
1:04:011 hour, 4 minutes, 1 secondbands on television in town sound awful because the TV stations were not designed to host music.
1:04:101 hour, 4 minutes, 10 secondsSo, okay, well, we don’t have that, so I’ll make it. Okay. So, and the same thing with accessibility. Okay, well, we don’t have this, so I’ll have to I’ll
1:04:171 hour, 4 minutes, 17 secondshave to make it. So, yeah, I’m really okay with that. Um I don’t mind doing the work. I don’t I I I enjoy doing the work. Um you know, it’s nice to get
1:04:251 hour, 4 minutes, 25 secondssupport as well, but we are, you know, as as as a community of people, um you know, uh anyone that has a disability
1:04:351 hour, 4 minutes, 35 secondsneed also has, you know, an obligation to help bring that about.
1:04:391 hour, 4 minutes, 39 secondsI think I think it’s a matter of meeting halfway.
1:04:411 hour, 4 minutes, 41 secondsIt is, you know, it is exactly it’s a matter of how do I know what you need unless you can communicate to me what that experience is, you And and there
1:04:491 hour, 4 minutes, 49 secondsare I have to say, you know, there was an experience I had in 2015. I was a a keynote closing uh closing address for a
1:04:571 hour, 4 minutes, 57 secondsconference and um and there was a gentleman who was blind who was pretty much just mad at the world, you know, he
1:05:051 hour, 5 minutes, 5 secondswas just very upset. And when when he almost fell off stage and several people went to help him, that made him very
1:05:131 hour, 5 minutes, 13 secondsangry. And um and so I think that understanding that people have some some
1:05:221 hour, 5 minutes, 22 secondspain, some grieving to do, all that’s appropriate. Sure.
1:05:261 hour, 5 minutes, 26 secondsBut but also understanding that you can’t if if you want to make progress,
1:05:341 hour, 5 minutes, 34 secondsthat is not helpful. Like that is not the way to uh to make positive progress by being mad at everybody. And but I
1:05:411 hour, 5 minutes, 41 secondsmean it’s you know it it’s and then then also too I am I’ll tell you what’s one of the last interesting point on this
1:05:481 hour, 5 minutes, 48 secondsand then you ask me a question if you want to follow up but I have a a dear friend when I went to Berkeley uh online
1:05:581 hour, 5 minutes, 58 secondswhen I was uh trying to study music business uh to try and help myself uh make more money as a record as as a recording
1:06:061 hour, 6 minutes, 6 secondsartist. Um, you know, I had to take a class that I didn’t want to take and the class was called artistry.
1:06:161 hour, 6 minutes, 16 secondsI like this is nonsense. I’m an artist.
1:06:171 hour, 6 minutes, 17 secondsI don’t need this. And and uh but I had it was required. It was not an option.
1:06:241 hour, 6 minutes, 24 secondsSo, grudgingly uh I took the class and wasn’t ever one of the best things I
1:06:321 hour, 6 minutes, 32 secondsever did. And um I met this incredible professor
1:06:391 hour, 6 minutes, 39 secondsand I will do a shameless plug for the Stuck on Sound podcast where she is a
1:06:451 hour, 6 minutes, 45 secondsguest and her name is Ellen and she said something so fascinating to me when we talk about disability and advocacy. Um
1:06:551 hour, 6 minutes, 55 secondsand I want to highlight this because of what I said earlier. Everybody’s lived experience is different. She
1:07:031 hour, 7 minutes, 3 secondsbecame like the warrior and was like fighting her disability. Fight, fight, fight. And she said, and that is my mentality to be totally honest with you.
1:07:141 hour, 7 minutes, 14 secondsLike I not so much fighting for me, but it’s like I refuse to allow you to
1:07:211 hour, 7 minutes, 21 secondscontrol what I do. Like I I will I will do what I want to do. Blind be damned.
1:07:291 hour, 7 minutes, 29 secondsyou know, metal shoulder and metal hip be damned. No adrenal function be damned. I’m going to do what I want to do and universe you can just get get on with it. So that’s my that’s how I feel.
1:07:411 hour, 7 minutes, 41 secondsSo you know I’m just like can’t keep a good man down kind of thing, right? So, but she since she was the warrior like she was fighting against her disease,
1:07:491 hour, 7 minutes, 49 secondsfighting against her disease and um uh because she was she was a dancer and then developed you know some some health
1:07:571 hour, 7 minutes, 57 secondsissues and she said eventually over time being the warrior all the time was exhausting.
1:08:041 hour, 8 minutes, 4 secondsYes. And uh and I get that. And and she said, “So I
1:08:101 hour, 8 minutes, 10 secondshad to reframe my relationship with my disability and think of it more as a companion.”
1:08:191 hour, 8 minutes, 19 secondsNow, she’s a better person than I am because Joey can’t do that [laughter] because I have been fighting since the moment I was born. So I don’t know how not to do that.
1:08:291 hour, 8 minutes, 29 secondsI disagree, Joey. [laughter] No, I disagree.
1:08:341 hour, 8 minutes, 34 secondsI think what you’re referring to here is fighting against something that you don’t want to accept.
1:08:431 hour, 8 minutes, 43 secondsRight.
1:08:441 hour, 8 minutes, 44 secondsAnd I would say to you that you have not only accepted it, you’ve embraced it and that’s true. And and so to me, I think
1:08:511 hour, 8 minutes, 51 secondsthat there’s a difference and it’s a very distinct difference between and and again, you know, I speak from a from a a
1:08:581 hour, 8 minutes, 58 secondsprivileged perspective here of not having a disability per se, you know, Well, [laughter] believe me, I’m way over on the spectrum
1:09:061 hour, 9 minutes, 6 secondsas far as that goes. Okay? So, you know, I got that going for me. But, u but, you know, I think to me to see how somebody
1:09:151 hour, 9 minutes, 15 secondscan say, “Fuck you, universe. I’m going to adapt.” Right? That is not being angry.
1:09:231 hour, 9 minutes, 23 secondsI think anyone who has gone to that point, that’s what I think she’s referring to when she says being a warrior. Yeah. Because you’re you’re not
1:09:321 hour, 9 minutes, 32 secondsa war. Well, okay, let’s define warrior because there’s a warrior who is rebel without a cause.
1:09:381 hour, 9 minutes, 38 secondsRight. That’s who’s just angry and being paralyzed by that anger. And there’s a warrior. Exactly. You’re not, man.
1:09:441 hour, 9 minutes, 44 secondsYou’re waving the flag and you’re like onward into battle. Absolutely. You know, and so I think that’s a big difference.
1:09:501 hour, 9 minutes, 50 secondsThat is a big You’re You know what? I think that’s very clarifying. That was a very excellent way to to to say that and I I I think you actually have the right
1:09:571 hour, 9 minutes, 57 secondsof it. Um and I but I thought that it was um you know I I thought that it was so interesting the the different
1:10:061 hour, 10 minutes, 6 secondsperspectives that people have and the different ways they integrate uh themselves into into society. And you
1:10:141 hour, 10 minutes, 14 secondsknow, one of the things that was really helpful for me was um when I was little,
1:10:201 hour, 10 minutes, 20 secondsthere was no ADA. Um and there was really nothing. I mean, and and uh in a
1:10:291 hour, 10 minutes, 29 secondsway that worked to my advantage because it it made me just go, “Oh, well, um can’t do it that way. We’ll just do it
1:10:361 hour, 10 minutes, 36 secondsthis way.” [laughter] You know, oh well, it’s or we can’t go through. I we’ll go under. Well, you know, whatever. So, we
1:10:441 hour, 10 minutes, 44 secondsjust it was it was always like thinking fast on your feet. And I will say uh uh in in the studio world, being able to
1:10:511 hour, 10 minutes, 51 secondsthink fast on your feet is really handy when things when things go wrong. Oh, yeah.
1:10:551 hour, 10 minutes, 55 secondsLike one of my attributes is when things go wrong in the studio, none of the clients ever even know it because I just I’ll just do it this way.
1:11:031 hour, 11 minutes, 3 secondsYou know, we joke about that. We call it the client face. You know, the client face is, “Yeah, it’s cool. Great. Yeah, it’s cool.” Well, you know, but I I will tell them
1:11:101 hour, 11 minutes, 10 secondsactually. I’ll say, “Hey,” I’ll say, “Hey, I’ve got a little technical glitch here. I’m going to stop the clock a second. I’m going to fix this thing and then we’ll get back to work.” And the
1:11:181 hour, 11 minutes, 18 secondsother thing I will say that comes from sort of a parallel concept of what we’re talking about in a in a full circle kind
1:11:261 hour, 11 minutes, 26 secondsof way is I have made the decision that whatever it takes to make the session
1:11:331 hour, 11 minutes, 33 secondsright um that’s what I’ll do. So that by making that decision a global decision o
1:11:421 hour, 11 minutes, 42 secondsof my process regardless of the circumstance, I take an enormous amount of stress off myself
1:11:511 hour, 11 minutes, 51 secondsbecause I don’t have to worry about it because I I’ve already made the decision that whatever it takes to make this thing right is what we’re going to do.
1:11:581 hour, 11 minutes, 58 secondsSo there’s no stress. It’s like [laughter] like I tell people like recording with me and this all comes
1:12:051 hour, 12 minutes, 5 secondsback down to the the the kind of life I’ve lived. Recording with me, you get one thing of that’s for sure. Joey
1:12:131 hour, 12 minutes, 13 secondsStucky is a dramafree zone. Like whatever happens, it’s it’s going to be okay. I’m going to take care of you. We got this. It’s good. So don’t fret.
1:12:221 hour, 12 minutes, 22 secondsWhatever whatever we got to do, we’re gonna do it and and we’re gonna make it.
1:12:251 hour, 12 minutes, 25 secondsAnd so because of that, we can be joyful and and not and not, you know, just be in the moment
1:12:331 hour, 12 minutes, 33 secondsof creating the art and like we we worry about those things, but like you know, you know, oh, it took me an extra half hour to get what I needed uh because I
1:12:411 hour, 12 minutes, 41 secondshad a something to crash. Don’t worry about man. I ain’t going to charge you for that. No big deal, you know? Like yeah, we got it. I mean, we may take a sledgehammer to the
1:12:491 hour, 12 minutes, 49 secondscomputer later. [laughter] Well, only if we want to replace it, though. Yeah, we don’t.
1:12:541 hour, 12 minutes, 54 secondsBecause Yeah. Exactly. But yeah, but anyway, I I just I think that’s another important thing about like, you know, being creative. And also, I think that’s something that a disability has, you
1:13:021 hour, 13 minutes, 2 secondsknow, kind of given me is that like idea like, you know what, uh, whatever happens, I’m going to make it work. And I think that really is helpful.
1:13:101 hour, 13 minutes, 10 secondsOh, I agree with you. And I think that is something that, you know, I mean, it applies obviously to uh anybody with a disability, but it
1:13:191 hour, 13 minutes, 19 secondsit applies really to anybody. And I think, you know, one of the things that I think is kind of interesting, you know, we’ve become much more aware of
1:13:281 hour, 13 minutes, 28 secondsneurodiversity and and all of the offshoots of that in recent years. And I’ve worked with a lot of students and and encouraged them in that respect, you know.
1:13:371 hour, 13 minutes, 37 secondsBut I think what’s interesting about that is that it has made all of us more aware of disabilities in general.
1:13:471 hour, 13 minutes, 47 secondsAnd really, you know, I mean, look, there’s there’s no way in hell I can put myself in your position, right? Or, you know, the same way there’s no way in
1:13:551 hour, 13 minutes, 55 secondshell that you can put yourself in the position of somebody with a completely different disability. That’s right. You know, and we can empathize, but we can’t.
1:14:021 hour, 14 minutes, 2 secondsExactly. Exactly. But I think that empathy, especially when you start talking about creativity. Oh yeah. You know, creativity flows through us.
1:14:101 hour, 14 minutes, 10 secondsIt flows through the brain. it flows through whatever way we have to express it. You know, those of us who are
1:14:181 hour, 14 minutes, 18 secondsblessed enough to have the use of our fingers and, you know, can do stuff with it, that’s great. But for anybody really, you know, there’s a way to
1:14:241 hour, 14 minutes, 24 secondsexpress yourself. And I think that’s uh that’s something that it’s really really wonderful to be able to acknowledge and say, okay, how can I help you?
1:14:351 hour, 14 minutes, 35 secondsYeah. Get that idea out.
1:14:361 hour, 14 minutes, 36 secondsThat is the greatest joy. I’m so glad you brought that up because I am not saying that I would turn down working
1:14:441 hour, 14 minutes, 44 secondswith Paul McCartney or something. I mean, [laughter] I’m not saying that because I mean, you know, probably my favorite musician ever. Well, he’s he’s closely tied with Neil Finn. But but the
1:14:521 hour, 14 minutes, 52 secondsthing is like good combination right there.
1:14:541 hour, 14 minutes, 54 secondsOh my god. Geniuses. Yeah. Um, but but I mean like I’m not saying I would turn that down, but you know, I take such
1:15:001 hour, 15 minutesgreat joy and and and privilege from artists that are starting their journey
1:15:071 hour, 15 minutes, 7 secondsand being able to give them a good experience and a good foundational experience so they know what they really should expect to get in general terms.
1:15:171 hour, 15 minutes, 17 secondsI’ve had so many people uh be turned off by by music business, be turned off by recording because the experience was so
1:15:241 hour, 15 minutes, 24 secondsbad. the the people were negative, the you know, whatever. And uh and and and so I am always excited to give like that
1:15:321 hour, 15 minutes, 32 secondsfirst person a really good experience, so that they go in expecting that and requiring it. So there’s that advocate
1:15:401 hour, 15 minutes, 40 secondsfor yourself like, well, you know, I’m paying you money. I I I shouldn’t have you over here like uh you know, yelling
1:15:481 hour, 15 minutes, 48 secondsin my face. Tell me how what a terrible singer I am. you know, oh, you know, [laughter] you know, you could do that later in private. Uh, but but in all
1:15:561 hour, 15 minutes, 56 secondsseriousness, I mean, you know, like it’s such a joy to like be able to guide somebody and say, well, you know, here is here’s how we will find a way for you
1:16:051 hour, 16 minutes, 5 secondsto transmit uh the art that’s that you have. And I have because I love the ironies, I have a a keynote that I give.
1:16:161 hour, 16 minutes, 16 secondsIt’s called how to avoid sound blindness and return to critical listening. If I’m given the full lecture time, it’s 90
1:16:241 hour, 16 minutes, 24 secondsminutes. Usually I have to make it about 45.
1:16:281 hour, 16 minutes, 28 secondsBut it has and I’m proud of this and it’s silly, but I really am. It has
1:16:351 hour, 16 minutes, 35 secondsslides and I’m proud [laughter] I’m proud that a blind person is using slides and I know what
1:16:421 hour, 16 minutes, 42 secondsI hope at least one of them is offkilter a little bit, you know.
1:16:441 hour, 16 minutes, 44 secondsWell, no, no. Here’s here’s [laughter] the genius part, if I say so myself. The smart part was I had an artist friend of mine make them custom so I know exactly what they are.
1:16:551 hour, 16 minutes, 55 secondsAll right. All right. Good.
1:16:551 hour, 16 minutes, 55 secondsAnd so and they do feature I’m just going to I’m just going to put this teaser out there. They do feature rubber ducks, but but these these slides uh
1:17:041 hour, 17 minutes, 4 secondshave a color block. Now, I have forgotten what the colors are, but [laughter] but at one point I knew.
1:17:121 hour, 17 minutes, 12 secondsBut the color block is this. There there are three blocks on the screen and I really believe like use every tool you got to educate. Right? So some people are visual learners.
1:17:211 hour, 17 minutes, 21 secondsAin’t no reason I can’t speak to them especially if I made the graphic and I know what it is. [laughter] Yeah. You know what I mean? The left color block I think is blue
1:17:291 hour, 17 minutes, 29 secondsand it says artistic intention. And then the middle color block is like yellow
1:17:361 hour, 17 minutes, 36 secondsand it says vehicle of music. And then the the the one on the right, the last
1:17:441 hour, 17 minutes, 44 secondsone is red and it says technical communication.
1:17:481 hour, 17 minutes, 48 secondsAnd so what I’m trying to share with people is that our jobs as engineer producers or whatever you you want to
1:17:561 hour, 17 minutes, 56 secondscall it is to take that artistic vision, figure out the vehicle to transmit it,
1:18:041 hour, 18 minutes, 4 secondswhich is the song. And in that phase, we’re doing things like arrangements and keys and tempos and collections of tones
1:18:131 hour, 18 minutes, 13 secondsand is it a bright record or a dark record and you know all these things.
1:18:161 hour, 18 minutes, 16 secondsAnd then we’re going to the end and we’re capturing that transmission so that it can be disseminated. And that’s
1:18:251 hour, 18 minutes, 25 secondsour where do I put the mic and where do I put the what EQ and you know all these things. But I believe that if there’s a
1:18:331 hour, 18 minutes, 33 secondsproblem with the mix, most the time that comes from one of the other two blocks not being right and that that really,
1:18:411 hour, 18 minutes, 41 secondsyou know, the the uh if if the music’s wrong. So, for example, if you have four
1:18:491 hour, 18 minutes, 49 secondsguys all playing in the range of middle C, this is going to make your mix a problem, you know. So you know so so
1:18:581 hour, 18 minutes, 58 secondssimilarly if if your artistic intention is nebulous and unclear uh and you don’t know what it is that you’re supposed to
1:19:061 hour, 19 minutes, 6 secondsbe telling you don’t understand the story uh that’s a problem. So, I feel like when the mix is over and and what
1:19:151 hour, 19 minutes, 15 secondswhat this partly what you know uh partly what going back to like disability for a second like I think one of the things
1:19:231 hour, 19 minutes, 23 secondsthat helps me know when the mix is over is when the the m the music communicates
1:19:311 hour, 19 minutes, 31 secondsthe message. So, if my message is joy and I make you feel
1:19:381 hour, 19 minutes, 38 secondsthat I am now done. Stop tweaking. Take your hands off the controls because I can spend the rest of my life on one song and find something wrong with it.
1:19:491 hour, 19 minutes, 49 secondsAnd you know, my job is to tear these things apart and put them back together.
1:19:541 hour, 19 minutes, 54 secondsThere has been uh a a a greater amount of anxiety
1:20:011 hour, 20 minutes, 1 seconduh just baseline uh in the music business for the youngsters coming up now. and and there’s this whole idea of
1:20:091 hour, 20 minutes, 9 secondslike perfection and you know I think that’s a myth like I don’t I don’t think that’s even the goal. I I I wanted to
1:20:161 hour, 20 minutes, 16 secondscommunicate those are two different things. So I I’ve been trying to lift.
1:20:221 hour, 20 minutes, 22 secondsOne of the things I do love about the next generation is that they are more open to talking about how they are affected mentally
1:20:301 hour, 20 minutes, 30 secondsuh than than the p than people in the past. And and so I think that’s a great boon which is kind of to your point earlier. But I think one of the things
1:20:371 hour, 20 minutes, 37 secondswe can do to calm that anxiety to to work with that is to remember how
1:20:431 hour, 20 minutes, 43 secondshealing music is and how powerful it is and that it doesn’t actually have to fit into a box and it doesn’t actually have
1:20:521 hour, 20 minutes, 52 secondsto be perfect to be of value because I am not perfect as a being and that’s
1:20:581 hour, 20 minutes, 58 secondsokay. um you know so so I think the relatable sort of you know uh story here
1:21:051 hour, 21 minutes, 5 secondsthat that that that runs on parallel tracks is the fact that people aren’t perfect music’s not perfect and but they
1:21:131 hour, 21 minutes, 13 secondshave a symbiosis and there is a value to to all of that and you can enjoy it and
1:21:211 hour, 21 minutes, 21 secondsyou can be blessed by it and you can be inspired by it and it it doesn’t have to be this odd odd somewhat uh clinical,
1:21:311 hour, 21 minutes, 31 secondsyou know, picture of perfection and because beings aren’t perfect, you know, so why would the music be perfect? So, I I just I just Yeah, I don’t believe in
1:21:411 hour, 21 minutes, 41 secondsthe perfect mix. Now, that’s not to say I’m not a crazy man when it comes to trying to get a good mix. I I I do want
1:21:491 hour, 21 minutes, 49 secondsa good mix. I work at it. But what I’m saying is like I think the trick in this business and one of the reasons you want to work with me in particular is number one, I’m only listening to your music.
1:22:011 hour, 22 minutes, 1 secondThat’s that’s the only thing I’m doing.
1:22:031 hour, 22 minutes, 3 secondsI’m not looking out the window. I’m not read [laughter] I’m not reading my phone. I’m not even looking at Daniel going, “That’s a nice shirt.” Like, you
1:22:101 hour, 22 minutes, 10 secondsknow, like [laughter] I’m not uh which, by the way, it feels like a Hawaiian shirt, but I could be wrong.
1:22:141 hour, 22 minutes, 14 secondsIt just feels It’s not. But it’s but it is a you know, sim similar kind of thing.
1:22:181 hour, 22 minutes, 18 secondsOkay. It just felt sort of a Hawaiian shirt to me. You could feel the print better.
1:22:211 hour, 22 minutes, 21 secondsWell, I was Yeah, I mean, I was groping you earlier and it was fun for everybody. [laughter] Uh, so but but I mean, you know, people don’t like that as much as they used to.
1:22:281 hour, 22 minutes, 28 secondsUh, but but really like I think this whole idea like, you know, work hard, have a good work ethic, you know, study
1:22:361 hour, 22 minutes, 36 secondsand and try. But but the thing is I’m going to bring out your art and we’re
1:22:431 hour, 22 minutes, 43 secondsgoing to explore it together. And we’re not going to claim that it’s perfect, but what we are going to claim is that it’s you and that it’s unique and that
1:22:521 hour, 22 minutes, 52 secondsit has value. And we’re going to expose all those things to anyone that wants to listen. And one of the reasons I can do that is because A, as I said, I’m only
1:23:011 hour, 23 minutes, 1 secondlistening to your record. That’s all I’m doing. And B, I’m not trying to make it fit some sort of narrowly defined thing.
1:23:081 hour, 23 minutes, 8 secondsThe world is a magnificent place of interesting things. And we don’t need like homogyny. We don’t need cookie cutter. We don’t need processed cheese.
1:23:201 hour, 23 minutes, 20 secondsWe just need humans. Uh making music uh for humans. Um and and I think we will
1:23:281 hour, 23 minutes, 28 secondsbe spiritually fulfilled by that, uplifted, booied, supported, healed. All these things come from something that is actually inherently imperfect.
1:23:391 hour, 23 minutes, 39 secondsSo let me ask you, you came up obviously in a different
1:23:461 hour, 23 minutes, 46 secondsera, not only from the not only in terms of technology, but in terms of accessibility.
1:23:541 hour, 23 minutes, 54 secondsNow [clears throat] we’ve got a whole different generation that’s coming up that makes music differently. Oh, sure.
1:23:591 hour, 23 minutes, 59 secondsThat has different accessibility thanks to people like yourself among others, you know, who have really worked hard
1:24:051 hour, 24 minutes, 5 secondsfor that. um when you meet young people with a disability who want to come into the industry now, what kind of advice do you give them?
1:24:161 hour, 24 minutes, 16 secondsWell, the first thing I really think this is important for everyone, but I will say that I do in
1:24:231 hour, 24 minutes, 23 secondsparticular try to emphasize it with people that are uh you know getting into our business
1:24:311 hour, 24 minutes, 31 secondsfor the first time and are you know of of the modern era and uh
1:24:401 hour, 24 minutes, 40 secondsby by that I mean you know because there’s yeah so the most important thing we can do
1:24:471 hour, 24 minutes, 47 secondsum as people with a disability and and I think again as I say for anyone uh is actually twofold and it’s just really
1:24:551 hour, 24 minutes, 55 secondsimportant but sadly kind of like hard to uh to bring to fruition sometimes and that is self-love
1:25:041 hour, 25 minutes, 4 secondsuh or if you want to put another way self value uh and then uh grace you know
1:25:111 hour, 25 minutes, 11 secondsyou have to give yourself permission and time to learn and to grow. Um, you you
1:25:191 hour, 25 minutes, 19 secondscannot expect to be a fully formed artist, engineer, whatever. I mean, when
1:25:271 hour, 25 minutes, 27 secondsyou go to school, there’s kind of this, I guess, myth, for lack of a better word, that when you come out, you’re a
1:25:331 hour, 25 minutes, 33 secondsprofessional. Really, what’s happened is you’ve learned how to learn. like you know like I’m not going to in in four
1:25:421 hour, 25 minutes, 42 secondsyears of me educating you on ProTools or whatever that is not going to that’s not your
1:25:501 hour, 25 minutes, 50 seconds10,000 hours yet that’s [laughter] that is that is the path you have now unlocked the door to take you to that
1:25:581 hour, 25 minutes, 58 seconds10,000 hours a and so you don’t you should not expect to be
1:26:051 hour, 26 minutes, 5 secondsa to know everything I mean you know you have to give yourself grace like time to learn, time to grow, time to evolve,
1:26:121 hour, 26 minutes, 12 secondstime to become. And then so that’s that’s the grace part. And then the self-worth part, you know, I make music
1:26:221 hour, 26 minutes, 22 secondsbecause I am spiritually compelled to do so. It is not really a choice, frankly.
1:26:301 hour, 26 minutes, 30 secondsUm, it is a vocation certainly. Uh it is a calling and music chose me because and
1:26:381 hour, 26 minutes, 38 secondsI can prove it because if [clears throat] I had any sense at all I would not be in this business. Uh you
1:26:451 hour, 26 minutes, 45 secondsknow rationally speaking you look at it you’re like oh this is a terrible idea.
1:26:501 hour, 26 minutes, 50 secondsIt’s like [laughter] like you know like and so because there’s really not much of a middle class you know it’s like you’re at the
1:26:571 hour, 26 minutes, 57 secondsbottom you’re at the top you’re at the bottom. I mean, you know, you and I I’m I’m I’m being a little facitious here, but I’m saying it is very difficult and
1:27:061 hour, 27 minutes, 6 secondsand the chances of being, you know, astronomically successful are small.
1:27:111 hour, 27 minutes, 11 secondsThat being said, it could be you. uh you know so so what I like to tell people is
1:27:191 hour, 27 minutes, 19 secondsyou have to value your contribution to the craft
1:27:261 hour, 27 minutes, 26 secondsbecause that truly gives you joy if you’re in the business for the right reasons. I I if you’re in the business
1:27:341 hour, 27 minutes, 34 secondsbecause you love the craft because you think it has value not only to you but
1:27:421 hour, 27 minutes, 42 secondsto other people. you think that it that it can make the world a better place. uh you know all these things have value and
1:27:501 hour, 27 minutes, 50 secondsthe other thing is you have to understand that though you are imperfect and and though you are always going to
1:27:581 hour, 27 minutes, 58 secondsgrow and change and get better you know and and evolve um you are of value uh
1:28:061 hour, 28 minutes, 6 secondsjust by being who you are that is enough and um and so I really believe that’s important to understand and and look you
1:28:141 hour, 28 minutes, 14 secondsknow my buddy Ross Hogarth you Um, I didn’t I’ve never recorded Van Halen.
1:28:191 hour, 28 minutes, 19 secondsUm, but that doesn’t mean I feel like my records aren’t worth something. You know, it’s like like, you know, I mean, I I I I believe that I bring something
1:28:271 hour, 28 minutes, 27 secondsto the table um just just by being who I am and just by doing what I do. And and I I value it. I tell them if you’re in
1:28:361 hour, 28 minutes, 36 secondsmusic because you are not completely alive
1:28:441 hour, 28 minutes, 44 secondsor engaged in the universe or or happy or whatever you however you want to define it. If you’re in the music
1:28:521 hour, 28 minutes, 52 secondsbusiness because like you hurt so bad when you’re not, welcome to the club and God bless you. [laughter]
1:28:591 hour, 28 minutes, 59 secondsIf that’s not how you feel, this may not be the career for you because it’s that armor
1:29:071 hour, 29 minutes, 7 secondsof of the art and the work and the craft and the people in that you meet. It’s
1:29:141 hour, 29 minutes, 14 secondsthat that will give you the strength to put up with the crazy because there’s a lot of crazy and there’s a lot of people
1:29:221 hour, 29 minutes, 22 secondsthat are highly divorced from reality and [laughter] and so, you know, you got to have armor to protect yourself against that. So to to put the final
1:29:301 hour, 29 minutes, 30 secondscherry on this, as a young man, I had a girlfriend and her friend came
1:29:391 hour, 29 minutes, 39 secondsup to me and for whatever reason felt compelled to say to me, I don’t like your music. I was like, okay. And she’s
1:29:481 hour, 29 minutes, 48 secondslike, that that doesn’t bother you? No, I don’t care what you think. So it’s like I don’t like some people will like it, some people won’t. I’m good with it.
1:29:571 hour, 29 minutes, 57 secondsuh it it doesn’t hurt my feelings at all. I am not for everybody, right? So that is okay.
1:30:031 hour, 30 minutes, 3 secondsSo when you get out there in the world and you real you say, “Well, gosh, you know, I’m not for everybody.” Oh, that’s that’s just, you know, it is what it is.
1:30:131 hour, 30 minutes, 13 secondsLike that’s okay. Nobody’s for everybody.
1:30:151 hour, 30 minutes, 15 secondsThat’s exactly right there. You know, some people to be honest. I mean, I feel like and I’m not trying to take anything away from these big superstars. Please understand, I’m a big Taylor Swift fan.
1:30:261 hour, 30 minutes, 26 secondsUh I really am. I really am. Uh I like her for a million reasons. I won’t go into them all. Uh but but I’m a big fan.
1:30:321 hour, 30 minutes, 32 secondsBut you know uh sometimes being popular
1:30:391 hour, 30 minutes, 39 secondsis is different than being good. Like it it’s it’s not
1:30:461 hour, 30 minutes, 46 secondsnecessarily the same experience. Now I’m not talking about Taylor here because again I like her for lots of reasons.
1:30:521 hour, 30 minutes, 52 seconds[clears throat] But sometimes music’s popular because it’s simple. It resonates with people that have a that
1:30:581 hour, 30 minutes, 58 secondsare not uh musical uh afficionados. Uh it resonates because the message is simple and clear. Yeah. Sometimes complicated.
1:31:061 hour, 31 minutes, 6 secondsNot a lot of people want complex music, you know.
1:31:091 hour, 31 minutes, 9 secondsThat’s right. So, what I’m saying is don’t worry about that. Do what you do.
1:31:151 hour, 31 minutes, 15 secondsIt’s of value. Maybe it’ll be big, maybe it won’t, but that’s all good. If you can make a living where you’re not
1:31:221 hour, 31 minutes, 22 secondshaving to like say, well, let’s see. uh if my record don’t go platinum by tomorrow, I gotta lose my house. I mean, you know, like if you can get if you’re
1:31:311 hour, 31 minutes, 31 secondsin a place where you’re secure and you’re able to do what you want to do the way you want to do it, man, that is
1:31:371 hour, 31 minutes, 37 secondsabsolutely as as awesome as the platinum record and the jet like that, you know, and and you should
1:31:451 hour, 31 minutes, 45 secondsbe proud of that. You should be proud of it. You really should. And and so I just really feel like that applies to the disabled population a lot. Uh because
1:31:541 hour, 31 minutes, 54 secondsyou know, one of the one of the problems that we have is uh a lot of us have difficulty with just transportation. Uh
1:32:031 hour, 32 minutes, 3 secondsit’s just real hard sometimes if you have a disability to be where you need to be. Sure.
1:32:101 hour, 32 minutes, 10 secondsUm to and you know it it’s it’s you know my cited counterparts can can do things more easily than I can. um you know and
1:32:181 hour, 32 minutes, 18 secondsand like the thing is the best thing you can do for yourself is to be where things are happening but
1:32:261 hour, 32 minutes, 26 secondsmaybe you don’t have that ability to travel or whatever so what do you do then well you have to build it yourself
1:32:331 hour, 32 minutes, 33 secondsso uh you know I made the decision as a young man who there was no Uber there
1:32:401 hour, 32 minutes, 40 secondswas no ADA there was no uh internet and I I know that some people going no internet I Yeah. Yeah. How old is this
1:32:481 hour, 32 minutes, 48 secondsguy? Uh, but the thing is like I made the tactical decision that what I would do to take the burden
1:32:581 hour, 32 minutes, 58 secondsfrom me of going somewhere was to have a studio so that it was natural for people to come to me. So that was my that was
1:33:071 hour, 33 minutes, 7 secondsmy decision as a young, you know, 19year-old kid um that wanted to be in
1:33:151 hour, 33 minutes, 15 secondsthe music business. So that was the idea. Um and so you know that’s paid off in some ways in some ways it hasn’t. I
1:33:221 hour, 33 minutes, 22 secondsmean you know there there are times where uh I need to be somewhere else.
1:33:281 hour, 33 minutes, 28 secondsUh and that’s why fortunately for me I have employees. I’m successful enough to have employees now. I’m successful enough to you know I have I have a
1:33:361 hour, 33 minutes, 36 secondslovely family. So I’m able to I’m able to get where I need to be. But that’s not true for everyone with disability. Right.
1:33:421 hour, 33 minutes, 42 secondsAnd so thank you God presumably. Now, I much prefer to be in the same room if we can make it happen.
1:33:481 hour, 33 minutes, 48 secondsBut just traveling to get somewhere can be a real burden. But again, you know, fortunately, we now have tools that allow us to minimize that impact.
1:34:001 hour, 34 minutesSo, although I still feel like being in the same room is is the best choice if you can make it happen, it doesn’t mean
1:34:071 hour, 34 minutes, 7 secondsthat you can’t make it work uh and you know uh without without doing that. You can uh you know use Zoom, use Dropbox,
1:34:161 hour, 34 minutes, 16 secondsuse FedEx, use you know you can do all these things that can still get your music where it needs to be. You can you can you sell it on iTunes, you can So
1:34:241 hour, 34 minutes, 24 secondsyou’ve got all these you’ve got sync, you’ve got all these opportunities that you can that you can still be in the business even if travel’s hard for you.
1:34:321 hour, 34 minutes, 32 secondsSo there’s there’s lots of um lots of things, but I would say, you know, to to the younger generation and to my my
1:34:391 hour, 34 minutes, 39 secondsbrothers and sisters with disabilities, you know, this is still something you can do. Uh the the key is is that grace
1:34:481 hour, 34 minutes, 48 secondsthat you give yourself and the key is that you also have that self-love where you recognize your value. I was so
1:34:571 hour, 34 minutes, 57 secondsblessed by my parents to make me feel like I was enough. Uh, and that just
1:35:051 hour, 35 minutes, 5 secondsbecause someone didn’t like me or didn’t like my music or whatever, no big deal.
1:35:101 hour, 35 minutes, 10 secondsI mean, you know, I would prefer everyone to love me, but that’s not how the world works. So, you know, some people will, some people won’t.
1:35:171 hour, 35 minutes, 17 secondsHonestly, it doesn’t really have that much to do with me. [laughter] I mean, it really is it really is is is somebody else’s choice. like I can’t really, you
1:35:261 hour, 35 minutes, 26 secondsknow, as long as I’m not being a jerk. I mean, you know, like I can’t really control whether someone likes me or not.
1:35:321 hour, 35 minutes, 32 secondsThat’s kind of up to them. So, you know, and I say that kind of facitiously, but it’s true. And I think it’s the same thing with your music. Like, don’t worry
1:35:391 hour, 35 minutes, 39 secondsabout your art like having to be liked by everybody. It’s cool if it’s not. I think that’s the trick is that self-love and that and that and that grace. They
1:35:481 hour, 35 minutes, 48 secondswill get you far. And by the way, you also need to extend it to others. Yeah, good advice.
1:35:571 hour, 35 minutes, 57 secondsReal good advice. Joey Stucky, thank you for being my guest. Oh, thank you for being my friend. Likewise, man.
1:36:031 hour, 36 minutes, 3 secondsIt’s always a joy to I’m so excited that I was able to bamboozle you into come to Mon, Georgia.
1:36:111 hour, 36 minutes, 11 secondsHey, I’m Daniel Keller. Don’t forget to hit the subscribe button and join us each week for Insights and Sound.