Insights In Sound 209 – Sylvia Massy, Producer/Engineer/Artist/Author – S21 E9

Welcome to Insights and Sound, where we talk to the people behind the scenes,
0:044 secondsbehind the technology, and behind the music. People you may not know, but you should.
0:1010 secondsAnd please check out insights and sound.com for a full list of our podcasts and YouTube series. Insights and Sound is made possible with the
0:1818 secondssupport of our friends GCPro Customhouse.
0:2525 secondsIt’s actually happening. Wow. Well, I’m really impressed that we’ve actually connected here because it’s been like several years that we’ve been talking about this. So, you know, I’m excited.
0:3636 secondsAll right. I can fanboy out. Can I fanboy out? We’ve done stuff together before.
0:4545 secondsWe have. We have. And and it’s like,
0:4747 seconds”Yeah, we keep saying,”Oh, we should really do this.” But then, you know,
0:5151 secondssee, you have someone in your life, just like I have someone in my life who says, “Wait, you’re over booked.”
0:5757 secondsYeah, that’s my husband, Chris. Yeah. He he uh he holds the keys to the schedule.
1:061 minute, 6 secondsI’m right there with you. My wife does the same thing for me, and I’m grateful for it, believe me. I’m very grateful for it, too.
1:121 minute, 12 secondsYeah. Yeah. So, um, hey, we have all sorts of like six degrees of separation that we’ve never talked about. Like, I
1:201 minute, 20 secondsdidn’t realize that you lived in San Francisco, same era that I did. Oh, really? Did you go to the Mabooh?
1:271 minute, 27 secondsI played the Mabooh. In fact, in fact,
1:321 minute, 32 secondswell, uh, I was in a B. I was in several bands. I was in a band called Elements of Style.
1:361 minute, 36 secondsI know this band. How do I know this band? Did you play at Berkeley Square? I We played Berkeley Square. We played leisque in the hate. We played the the
1:451 minute, 45 secondsstone and the keystone and the um but but my my myaboohigh my garden story that is the only stage
1:541 minute, 54 secondsthat I have almost been electrocuted on twice in two different dates with two different bands. Oh, there’s a good story.
2:032 minutes, 3 secondsOh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That was uh that was an interesting club. So, what bands were you in? Oh, well, I was in a band called
2:122 minutes, 12 secondsIce Minus and a band called uh Revolver and a band Oh, there was
2:202 minutes, 20 secondslike a lot of little projects that were going on. Uh a lot of all girl bands,
2:262 minutes, 26 secondssome uh speed metal and some punk mostly.
2:292 minutes, 29 secondsLove it. Love it. Well, and uh so you might also remember there was a rehearsal facility down south of Market called China Blue Studios.
2:382 minutes, 38 secondsOh, yeah. Right. And uh South of Market.
2:402 minutes, 40 secondsWell, that’s where I used to work at uh CD Presents uh off of Army Street. Yeah.
2:472 minutes, 47 secondsThat was that was big big uh big sessions there. And Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
2:532 minutes, 53 secondsAnd what was it the Hunter Point? Is that what it’s called? Hunter Point. Yes. Yes.
2:582 minutes, 58 secondsThere was a lot of rehearsals down there, too. Yeah, that’s where this was.
3:023 minutes, 2 secondsIn fact, um, China Blue Studios is now basically left center field of the ballpark. Oh, okay.
3:103 minutes, 10 secondsSo, they they like knocked down the whole thing and rebuilt it and turned it into something else, but it was it was total ghetto back then, you know. Yeah. It was Yeah.
3:193 minutes, 19 secondsYeah. But, you know, we we were all going to be rock stars, of course. Yes. And some of us became rock stars.
3:273 minutes, 27 secondsSome of us did. And then some of us decided we’d rather work with the rock stars because that was even more challenging and more fun.
3:343 minutes, 34 secondsIt is. And and you don’t get the pressure from being on stage. Uh right. Pressure being on stage,
3:413 minutes, 41 secondsyou know. Actually, I mean, it’s funny because I think we followed similar paths there, too. Um I burned out on performing and then moved to LA to get a job in the studios.
3:523 minutes, 52 secondsOh, see that’s that’s how you do it.
3:553 minutes, 55 secondsYeah. So you ended up at Larabe, I think, right? I ended up at Cherokee while you were at Larab.
4:014 minutes, 1 secondOh, is that right? So we were like, you know, a mile or so from each other around uh ‘ 89. I got a job at Larabby.
4:104 minutes, 10 secondsUh starting uh Oh, wow. Yeah. I started as a runner for a few months and then I got
4:174 minutes, 17 secondsa an engineering gig because I had been an engineer in San Francisco for years before that and had been working with bands. But uh you start out in LA and
4:264 minutes, 26 secondsnobody knows you and nobody cares. So you got to start from the ground up again.
4:314 minutes, 31 secondsYeah. Yeah. So where did you engineer in San Francisco?
4:344 minutes, 34 secondsOh, uh Hyde Street was a big one. Uh uh on Howard it was Bear West Studios.
4:434 minutes, 43 secondsYeah, I remember Bear West.
4:464 minutes, 46 secondsUh there was a bunch of studios on the East Bay. Uh yeah, Dris, that was Matt Walls’s place.
4:554 minutes, 55 secondsAnd uh yeah. Yeah, I remember Different Fur. In fact,
4:584 minutes, 58 secondsI was supposed to intern at Different Fur and that didn’t happen for various reasons. Um but uh years later, I when I
5:065 minutes, 6 secondsmet Pat Gleason, I told him about it and he was like, “Oh my god, I’m so sorry.”
5:105 minutes, 10 secondsAnd I was like, “Pat, it’s been 30 something years. I think I’m over it.” You know?
5:155 minutes, 15 secondsYeah. We didn’t always get the jobs we wanted.
5:185 minutes, 18 secondsYeah. But, you know, that’s kind of good, too, because in a way, those doors that close and they redirect you to other things, those are just know where that’s going to lead you, but it leads you to the right place.
5:285 minutes, 28 secondsYeah. Exactly. It’s it’s always the right place because it’s always where you’re supposed to be. Yeah. Yeah. True.
5:345 minutes, 34 secondsYeah. So, you um one of the things that that happened for you at Larabe, as I understand it, is that you really kind of got to work with all sorts of
5:435 minutes, 43 secondsdifferent bands rather than just uh with your beloved punk stuff.
5:485 minutes, 48 secondsYeah. And and it was a a different a whole different vibe because when I was in San Francisco, I was running the
5:555 minutes, 55 secondssessions, you know, I never really was an engineer. I was just kind of the person who knew how to use the gear and I would tell everyone what to do. So,
6:046 minutes, 4 secondsright by default.
6:066 minutes, 6 secondsRight. By default. So, uh but in uh in Los Angeles in the music industry, it’s
6:136 minutes, 13 secondsvery regimented. Uh you’re you’re an assistant engineer. you don’t speak during a session, you have no opinions. Right. Right. Uh so that kind of thing,
6:226 minutes, 22 secondsbut the opportunities are skyhigh. So at Larabe, I was working with um all kinds of popular people at the time. You know,
6:306 minutes, 30 secondsthe Jacksons came in and um oh uh uh what’s her name? Oh god, so many big
6:396 minutes, 39 secondsbig artists. Aerosmith. I started working with Aerosmith there. and then Prince and uh Oh, it just goes on and on. Yeah.
6:486 minutes, 48 secondsYeah. And those studios really I mean,
6:496 minutes, 49 secondsyou know, same thing for me. I had come from um you know, the sort of punk new wave thing in San Francisco and moving down there and all of a sudden finding
6:576 minutes, 57 secondsmyself doing sessions that, you know, in certain ways it’s like I guess years ago we would have scoffed at in a way, you know, like Yeah. Well, you know,
7:067 minutes, 6 secondsI fell in love with funk. Holy cow. When I was working with Prince and I always liked, you know, 70s funk. But wow, he
7:137 minutes, 13 secondsjust uh brought it to a new level and and he and he was absolutely brilliant working with him. Uh I would set up the room, you know, when I got the chance to
7:227 minutes, 22 secondsbe engineering with him, not just an assistant, but I would set up the room with every kind of instrument he might want, you know, um and uh and just have it to tapes everything go ready to go.
7:347 minutes, 34 secondsUh and I’d have a keyboard set up with a drum machine right next to it. and he would come in and with one hand he would
7:417 minutes, 41 secondsplay the the drum machine live, no quantizing, and the right hand he would be playing the baseline on the keyboard.
7:497 minutes, 49 secondsAnd I would be recording on tape while he was just playing live and he says,
7:547 minutes, 54 seconds”Okay, here’s the verse. Here’s the chorus,” you know, and bam. Uh yeah. And and then I would slide it into the template of whatever we’re working on.
8:038 minutes, 3 secondsUh, and then he would pick up a guitar.
8:058 minutes, 5 secondsHe would grab a guitar and he would spin around on his heels and he would start playing recording and I’m like ah, you
8:128 minutes, 12 secondsknow, and uh, he was doing a little performance right there just me and him in the room. Oh my god. But but uh,
8:198 minutes, 19 secondsyeah, he could he he was brilliant with anything he touched and he would give me parts and I would put it together. And then at the point where the tracks were
8:278 minutes, 27 secondsall put together, then um I had a microphone hanging over the console and he would just say, “Okay, uh see you
8:358 minutes, 35 secondslater.” And then I would sit outside the room right outside in the lobby in a on a couch in the lobby. I would wait and I could hear him working in there. It he
8:438 minutes, 43 secondswould do the vocals all on his own and he it was an SSL and he knew how to use everything. So he would just be comping
8:518 minutes, 51 secondsand building parts. all this stuff was in his head. Uh that’s what fascinates me.
8:588 minutes, 58 secondsYeah. Yeah. I mean that’s what there are very few artists like that who really hear the whole thing in their head, you
9:069 minutes, 6 secondsknow. I mean I think maybe like Prince Todd Run, a couple of others, but for the most part Brian Wilson was this person too.
9:149 minutes, 14 secondsYeah.
9:159 minutes, 15 secondsYeah. Uh but but it’s it’s just such a rarity that these people who you know these people working with those kind of people I mean it’s fascinating. It’s
9:239 minutes, 23 secondsalso really challenging because you just got to know when to stay out of the way and when your your comments are welcome, you know.
9:319 minutes, 31 secondsOh yeah. Well, he did ask me uh for my not advice but my opinion on a few things and and then I knew well I’ve
9:399 minutes, 39 secondsreached a certain level if he’s asking me my opinion. Okay.
9:439 minutes, 43 secondsYeah. Yeah. It’s true. I mean, I’ I’ve I’ve had really interesting conversations with Susan Rogers also about working Susan’s got stories.
9:519 minutes, 51 secondsOh, yeah. Got stories, too. Peggy. Yeah.
9:549 minutes, 54 secondsOh, yeah. Yeah. And and you know, I’m I’m just fascinated with working with people like that. Um but, you know, back to back to what you were talking about
10:0210 minutes, 2 secondsabout the whole idea of working with all of these disparate kind of genres as well. you know, it really um it makes you think differently about the process,
10:1410 minutes, 14 secondsyou know.
10:1510 minutes, 15 secondsYeah. About the process and then your appreciation for different genres of music. I mean, that there’s great music in every genre.
10:2210 minutes, 22 secondsOh, yeah. Yeah.
10:2310 minutes, 23 secondsAnd and you can tell, you know, that’s that’s the challenge. Uh I don’t mind working on all types of music. A I still like I just finished a Bosanova record,
10:3310 minutes, 33 secondswhich is oh so amazing. and you know uh um so yeah I still spread my wings and
10:4110 minutes, 41 secondstry to uh explore different genres that I haven’t explored before and I’ve done pretty well with that. I got uh a lot of
10:4810 minutes, 48 secondsuh country music. I I’ve had uh success with Americana um as well as the real hard music which I love, you know.
10:5810 minutes, 58 secondsYeah. Yeah. And I think that’s good to,
11:0011 minutesyou know, that’s one thing that I have realized over the years is that for the most part, most of us who are uh who are
11:0811 minutes, 8 secondsreally possessed with music, there’s very little stuff we don’t like, you know. Yeah.
11:1411 minutes, 14 secondsI mean, I I will admit that I’m not a big fan of opera, you know, but you know, that’s that’s just me, you know. I
11:2211 minutes, 22 secondsmean, there are plenty of people who dig it, but for the most part, man, you know, if it’s good music, I really don’t care where it comes from. You know, it comes from the heart. That’s the one thing.
11:3011 minutes, 30 secondsOpera, I think, was what spurred me into punk rock because my mom was an opera singer and my mother, when I was growing up,
11:3811 minutes, 38 secondswould rehearse opera. She was a star in Michigan. It’s like a uh so she would rehearse and I was a baby underneath the
11:4611 minutes, 46 secondspiano listening, you know. Uh but I didn’t like opera. I ultimately I’m with you on that. I didn’t I rebelled, you
11:5511 minutes, 55 secondsknow, teenage years. I’m like, “Oh, I’m going to go as far away from opera as I can. I’m going to go to punk rock.”
12:0312 minutes, 3 secondsYou know,
12:0512 minutes, 5 secondsalthough I could sort of see the bridge there in a way, you know, it’s like opera being the original punk, you know. Yeah.
12:1412 minutes, 14 secondsVery very strange. So, um, you know, one of the things that I really, um, that I really love about, you know, I mean,
12:2112 minutes, 21 secondswe’ve had this conversation before about work the way you work with the artists.
12:2612 minutes, 26 secondsYou also uh you understand a whole lot about the the dichotomy the left brain right brain dichotomy you know and um
12:3512 minutes, 35 secondsyou know on the one hand we have to be the leftbrain organized technically
12:4212 minutes, 42 secondsadept people who are ready to capture that whenever it comes up. And on the other hand, we have to be the, you
12:5012 minutes, 50 secondsknow, we have to be able to talk to the out there, very creative, rightrained kind of uh, you know, inspiration, uh,
12:5912 minutes, 59 secondsthat that just kind of happens at the at the right moments, you know, and I’ve always been really fascinated by how we
13:0613 minutes, 6 secondsas producers especially have to be able to to find that balance, you know,
13:1113 minutes, 11 secondsyou got to be able to communicate on the same level with your artist as much as you can. Yeah.
13:1713 minutes, 17 secondsOh, yeah. Uh, yeah. There’s been some interesting situations where I have to uh bridge that gap, you know, and and it’s what what’s the phrase? Hurting cats,
13:2813 minutes, 28 secondsyou know, it’s like, oh yeah,
13:2913 minutes, 29 secondseverybody’s got their own agenda and everyone, you know, everyone’s a songwriter and everyone wants their instrument louder and every, you know,
13:3513 minutes, 35 secondsoh god. Uh, and I love I love these people and I love around with them. I can joke with them. I can curse
13:4413 minutes, 44 secondsworse than they can. I have nastiest jokes and uh so we get along usually right away. It doesn’t matter the the
13:5213 minutes, 52 secondsgnarliest get well Tom Aria from Slayer.
14:0014 minutesHe intimidated me, you know. He intimidated me. Yes. I did a project uh for Rick Rubin.
14:0714 minutes, 7 secondsI went down to Phoenix and recorded a live show with Slayer at the amphitheater there and uh it was great.
14:1514 minutes, 15 secondsUh, and then on on the on the flight home, I’m sitting next to Tom and he and he looks at me and he says with a side
14:2414 minutes, 24 secondseye, he says, “This tape better sound good.”
14:3414 minutes, 34 secondsBut yeah, I suppose that was the one the one that got me. But yeah,
14:3814 minutes, 38 secondsI don’t know. On the other hand, hey, if it doesn’t sound good, you know, I can blame you, too, you know? I mean, well, there you go. Yeah. It’s your performance.
14:4614 minutes, 46 secondsYeah. You know,
14:4814 minutes, 48 secondsbut but you know, it’s um it’s interesting you mentioned that because one of the things that I’m fascinated by is uh you know, you you did a lot of
14:5714 minutes, 57 secondswork with Rick Rubin. And Rick has a very um similar philosophy to something that I’ve believed for a long time,
15:0615 minutes, 6 secondswhich is that whole concept of the creative unconscious. the whole idea that these ideas, the this inspiration doesn’t come from us, it comes through
15:1515 minutes, 15 secondsus. And it it it’s almost like there’s this big, you know, creative unconscious out there somewhere that we’re just channeling.
15:2315 minutes, 23 secondsAnd well, that goes back into like existential discussions which we could go on for hours about.
15:3215 minutes, 32 secondsYeah. and all connected creatively and just, you know, through being alive.
15:4015 minutes, 40 secondsYeah. But I mean, I I think that is a big part of working with these people, isn’t it?
15:4515 minutes, 45 secondsWell, Rick Rubin in particular, he is a seeker and and people don’t always understand that about him, but he is
15:5415 minutes, 54 secondsalways interested in uh in the world around him. He’s uh extremely curious
16:0216 minutes, 2 secondsespecially about uh the things we don’t understand um religions uh uh extraterrestrial
16:1216 minutes, 12 secondsuh this kind of stuff. He’s fascinated with and and so he’ll spend a lot of time uh with these kind of thoughts. I I
16:1916 minutes, 19 secondsthink he’s he’s really brilliant. He’s an amazing producer. Oh my god. Yeah.
16:2416 minutes, 24 secondsAnd the biggest fan of of music in the world.
16:2816 minutes, 28 secondsSo, what was your biggest takeaway of working with him? Well,
16:3316 minutes, 33 secondsI learned how to manage uh one of the things I learned was how to manage several sessions at the same time. So,
16:4316 minutes, 43 secondsbecause when I worked with Rick, Rick had, you know, four or five sessions going at the same time, different places
16:5016 minutes, 50 secondsin LA at his house. He might have someone working there and he so he’s got all these engineers in different rooms and they’re working in a different
16:5916 minutes, 59 secondsproject in each room and then he would stop in and he would take a listen and he would say you need to work on this you know you need to work on this and
17:0717 minutes, 7 secondsthis and this everyone’s scrambling writing notes and then he leaves and then he goes to the next session and um I saw him how he managed these sessions
17:1517 minutes, 15 secondsand uh so when I left LA at the end of the 90s I went up to a place called Weed. I moved to a town called Weed,
17:2517 minutes, 25 secondsCalifornia. I’ve been there. Not much.
17:2917 minutes, 29 seconds12 people in the whole town or something like that. Yeah. Not a lot there.
17:3317 minutes, 33 secondsBut um I managed I over years I I managed to buy seven properties in the downtown. seven buildings, apartments,
17:4317 minutes, 43 secondsuh an auto uh parts store, a theater,
17:4717 minutes, 47 secondsthe Weed Palace Theater, uh uh an old bakery, uh all kinds of these little buildings and everything and then houses
17:5617 minutes, 56 secondsand then people would come in from out of town and I had set uh I had five different studios in these these buildings and we would start them in the
18:0418 minutes, 4 secondstheater and and start tracking them in the theater. I had a a whole crew of engineers up there and everyone had a room and then the clients would come in
18:1218 minutes, 12 secondsfrom out of town. We’d put them up and we’d put them in the theater track and then move them to the next room and do overdubs and then move them to the next
18:2118 minutes, 21 secondsroom and do vocals and move them to the next room and do mixing and and it went on like this for years and years and I
18:2918 minutes, 29 secondswas just jumping from room to room to room following through on all the projects, finishing the projects, you know, quality control. It was fantastic.
18:4018 minutes, 40 secondsUm, and and that’s what I learned from Rick because he’s he was able to
18:4618 minutes, 46 secondscome in with a quick listen and identify where things needed to go. And beyond
18:5318 minutes, 53 secondsthat, before a project even starts, he would spend months working on the material with an artist.
19:0219 minutes, 2 secondslike uh for instance like uh I didn’t work on Blood Sugar Sex Magic, but the Ro the Red Hot Chili Peppers album. I’m
19:1119 minutes, 11 secondsunderstanding there were 300 songs to choose from for that record. You could imagine if Rick’s got 300 songs to
19:1819 minutes, 18 secondschoose from. You’re going to get 25 really good songs. And that means at least one good record and probably two.
19:2619 minutes, 26 secondsSo, uh or a double album. I uh I I learned so much from Rick and I I respect him and forever he’s brilliant.
19:3619 minutes, 36 secondsThat’s interesting because in a way I could see where that could be really advantageous to be juggling all these different projects because one of the
19:4419 minutes, 44 secondschallenges that I’ve always found with working with artists is that we get way too deep down the rabbit hole and we
19:5219 minutes, 52 secondslose a lot of outside perspective. So being able to extract yourself and look at all these different things at the same time is kind of I mean that’s
20:0120 minutes, 1 secondactually sounds like a really good thing.
20:0420 minutes, 4 secondsWell, imagine being a producer and being able to step back if you’re like in the room all the time. How are you going to have a fresh perspective on what you’ve got, you know?
20:1320 minutes, 13 secondsRight.
20:1420 minutes, 14 secondsUh so yeah, I think I think it’s smart to step away if you’re able to have an engineer, you
20:2120 minutes, 21 secondsknow, a separate engineer. So, let them work on it for a while and come back and see what it sounds like with fresh ears,
20:2720 minutes, 27 secondsyou know. Uh, but but if you’re the engineer and you’re the uh the producer,
20:3320 minutes, 33 secondsthen well, then you just kind of That’s hard.
20:3720 minutes, 37 secondsThat’s really hard because that’s left brain, right brain at the same time.
20:4020 minutes, 40 secondsOh, man. And they clash. There’s like explosions happening.
20:4420 minutes, 44 secondsYeah. Yeah. I mean, I remember, you know, a lot of times when I worked at Cherokee and I was a second there. And of course, again, as you said, you know, you got to be just the fly on the wall.
20:5220 minutes, 52 secondsYou’ve got to be really quiet and don’t speak, just operate the tape machine,
20:5620 minutes, 56 secondsthat’s it, you know, but learning how those people juggled those things, you know. I was um I was lucky enough to sit
21:0421 minutes, 4 secondsin on on uh Phil Raone session on Peter Asher, you know, and those guys were really really pretty good, I would say,
21:1221 minutes, 12 secondsabout mixing those two concepts, but it’s not easy. And I think that’s a that’s a real challenge to be able to to
21:2121 minutes, 21 secondshave the luxury of having an engineer where you can just be that creative person, that rightrain person. That’s cool. Oh yeah, that’s a luxury.
21:3421 minutes, 34 secondsBut you know, uh the more that I work on uh on people’s
21:4021 minutes, 40 secondsmusic, it’s it it’s really about uh just digging in and finding the heart of what
21:4721 minutes, 47 secondsthe artist is trying to get at. And if you can achieve that, if you can help them do that, then then I think you’ve done a really good thing.
21:5521 minutes, 55 secondsYeah. And that goes back to what you were saying about pre-production, which I think is so it’s so underrated, especially in in the
22:0522 minutes, 5 secondsmarket now where everything is so everybody’s always in a hurry to get something done quickly. You know,
22:1122 minutes, 11 secondsspending time with the artist ahead of time, a lot of time really like examining like, you know, where is this song coming from? Yeah.
22:2022 minutes, 20 secondsWhat are you trying to say? you know,
22:2322 minutes, 23 secondswhy should I why should I listen to you as an artist? What what is what is it about you that you really have to say that makes me want to listen? What is it that makes you want to listen to you?
22:3422 minutes, 34 secondsAnother thing, too. There’s there’s a way to do it where you make the the song a lot less important. All right? Stop being so precious about your damn song.
22:4622 minutes, 46 secondsWrite write 20 songs. You can write 20 songs. and and go ahead and just let them be simple. Let them be unfinished.
22:5422 minutes, 54 secondsYeah.
22:5522 minutes, 55 secondsAnd and see what happens with that because the the some of the biggest
23:0123 minutes, 1 secondmost memorable songs in our uh uh that we know are ones that were written in like five minutes, you know. Yeah.
23:0923 minutes, 9 secondsUm and then giving the artist challenges to like, okay, why don’t you try to write a disco song, you know? And and they their eyes get big. They’re like,
23:1923 minutes, 19 seconds”Oh boy, what’s that going to be like?”
23:2123 minutes, 21 secondsOkay. Or write write a song in the in the style of another uh artist and just
23:2823 minutes, 28 secondslet it happen. You don’t have to just just have fun with it. Just stop being so precious, you know,
23:3423 minutes, 34 secondsbecause ideas are cheap. It’s what you do with them that really matters, you know.
23:3823 minutes, 38 secondsAnd uh you can work all, you know, five years on an album of 12 songs and uh
23:4523 minutes, 45 secondstake that same five years and and pump that oil well and really write a lot of songs and put out, you know, 50.
23:5623 minutes, 56 secondsYeah. Yeah. It’s And I really I I do really like that. But I like the idea of spending more time trying to figure out
24:0424 minutes, 4 secondswhat you want to say than writing a song just because you’re you you’re really precious about this one song, you know. Yeah. Yeah.
24:1124 minutes, 11 secondsYeah. That’s I um I do like the fact that you really um you have now applied yourself to so many different things and
24:2024 minutes, 20 secondsthat’s you know I mean going even beyond your production stuff. I know you’ve you’ve um lately in the last few years
24:2724 minutes, 27 secondsgone really into like you know examining everything you you can do from like you know creating artwork to to collecting
24:3524 minutes, 35 secondsweird to um you know almost I mean you know it’s interesting one of the things that um I did years ago in
24:4424 minutes, 44 secondslearning to work with people is I took an improv class. Oh, and you know,
24:5024 minutes, 50 secondsI I I learned in that the whole idea of how to how to interplay with other people, which is something that obviously you’re also really good at.
24:5924 minutes, 59 secondsAnd I think that’s also really an important part of being an artist is being able to express all those different things and and listen to other
25:0725 minutes, 7 secondspeople and and listen to what they have to express.
25:1125 minutes, 11 secondsWell, that I I say like all the students students that are starting out in the sound field, it’s like number one thing,
25:1925 minutes, 19 secondsyou got to learn to listen, you know, two ears, one mouth. Very hard.
25:2625 minutes, 26 secondsYeah. Yeah. And I mean, you know, that’s to me that’s one of the most valuable things in the world is being able to
25:3225 minutes, 32 secondsteach, you know. Um I just I love the idea of teaching because I learn so much more by teaching students.
25:4025 minutes, 40 secondsYeah. You know,
25:4225 minutes, 42 secondsyeah, they teach they teach me and and uh Yeah.
25:4525 minutes, 45 secondsThey’re coming up with ideas that uh and I that’s what we want to do. We want to inspire them, right?
25:5225 minutes, 52 secondsYeah. Yeah. And and also I think it it um it plays to that um and I kind of I’m
25:5925 minutes, 59 secondsI’m burned out on this word, but it plays to the neurode divergent brain. You know, I don’t even know what that is.
26:0726 minutes, 7 secondsWell, that’s just it. None of us really know what it is. It’s a term that has now been completely overused and abused and I really hate it. That’s why I say
26:1526 minutes, 15 secondsI’m burned out on it. But but the truth of the matter is artists have always been that way. We’ve always been multifaceted. We’ve always been
26:2326 minutes, 23 secondsinterested in doing a whole bunch of things at once. We’ve always been easily distractable. All of those things that that, you know, are now clinically analyzed. Truth of the matter is, man,
26:3426 minutes, 34 secondswe’ve been away our whole lives. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
26:3826 minutes, 38 secondsYou know, and and and I love that because that’s, you know, if I think about all of the really creative people
26:4526 minutes, 45 secondsthat I have met, they’re all multifaceted. you know, the actors and actresses who can play instruments and uh you know
26:5326 minutes, 53 secondsYeah. And they’re always they’re almost always a a just a wreck, too. They’re like, yeah, their lives are usually full
27:0227 minutes, 2 secondsof drama. Maybe sometimes created uh you know uh but maybe sometimes. Yeah,
27:1227 minutes, 12 secondsI think we thrive on that.
27:1427 minutes, 14 secondsI think I love these people. Yeah, I I love creatives.
27:1827 minutes, 18 secondsYeah. And I think that is probably, you know, getting that under control. Uh well, first of all, I think that’s kind of a myth because I think we don’t
27:2727 minutes, 27 secondsalways have it under control forever. I think we have it under control for a few minutes at a time here and there, you know, and then we go squirrel, you know,
27:3627 minutes, 36 secondsright? Yeah. You know, and that’s kind of cool.
27:3827 minutes, 38 secondsI mean, I love the fact that you’re able to do that. Um I think it’s a valuable lesson to other people, too. You know,
27:4527 minutes, 45 secondsone of the one of the things that I do is um I do workshops with younger artists and I talk to them about the
27:5327 minutes, 53 secondsfact that this is not a problem. You know, this is an asset. This is a this is a powerful thing that you’ve got this
28:0128 minutes, 1 secondbrain that can go, you know, from here to here to here to here all the time and make these connections because that’s what the creative mind is all about.
28:0828 minutes, 8 secondsOh, yeah.
28:1028 minutes, 10 secondsyou know. So, so I I love the fact that you’re able to do that with all of these different people and um I’m kind of
28:1828 minutes, 18 secondscurious about, you know, how do you do is there any kind of a system in your life or is it just like I’m going to
28:2528 minutes, 25 secondswake up today and do whatever I feel like it?
28:2728 minutes, 27 secondsOh boy, I wish I could wake up every day and do exactly what I wanted and I’m I’m almost there.
28:3828 minutes, 38 secondsI’m not sure if that’s a good thing or not, but okay.
28:4128 minutes, 41 secondsBut uh yeah, these projects I get myself into and then it’s like, wow. Like the writing of a microphone book. Holy cow.
28:5028 minutes, 50 secondsI didn’t think it was going to be so hard.
28:5328 minutes, 53 secondsThe the we just Chris Chris and I wrote a a book called The Great Vintage
29:0029 minutesMicrophone Book. And uh it’s coming out on Bloomspray this year. and I just did the the uh markup on the manuscript and
29:1029 minutes, 10 secondssent it back. So, it’s kind of in the can and it’s a freaking great book. Uh it’s uh
29:1829 minutes, 18 secondsit’s uh it’s all about the start of microphones, the the technology that led
29:2429 minutes, 24 secondsto microphones and uh it’s a kind of steps through all the technologies and uh chronology of how microphones were.
29:3529 minutes, 35 secondsuh developed and oh my god it’s a it’s a great book but it took 10 years.
29:4029 minutes, 40 secondsThat’s a yeah that’s a mountain to scale. I um I’m in the middle of a book that I was was originally co-writing
29:4829 minutes, 48 secondswith Mark Rubble from uh Blackberry and uh Mark left the rest of it to me when he passed and it’s the great
29:5629 minutes, 56 secondsAmerican recording studios of the 1960s and 70s. Oh, I’m so glad you’re doing that book.
30:0330 minutes, 3 secondsBut again, you know, it’s it’s a huge mountain to scale. On the other hand, I think, you know, projects like that,
30:0930 minutes, 9 secondsthey do keep us focused. You know, it’s like, okay, I got to finish this. You know, I got to do this. And and you know what happens with me, and I’m I’m
30:1830 minutes, 18 secondsguessing this happens with you, too, is like you burn on it for a little while and then you go, yeah, I really got to do something else for a while, and then maybe it’ll sit for a week or a month
30:2630 minutes, 26 secondsor, you know, however long, and then you go, “Oh, yeah, I really should get back to that one.” You know,
30:3130 minutes, 31 secondsthat’s that’s how uh my daily life kind of has I got like five big projects and
30:3930 minutes, 39 secondsthen the daily tasks uh which is like print st stems, you know, and get that out and send out this book and write
30:4830 minutes, 48 secondsthis and what uh but uh but yeah, the the the big jobs are like writing a book or making a big poster. I’ve committed
30:5730 minutes, 57 secondsmyself to doing these big posters every year for the NAM show. Uh, and uh, and Oh, I know. I told you. I I told you on
31:0531 minutes, 5 secondssocial media that I’ll feel that I’ve made it when I’m in one of your post. You’re on there. Yeah, that’s right.
31:0931 minutes, 9 secondsWell, you’re not on there yet, but you’re going on next year. Cool.
31:1331 minutes, 13 secondsBut but yeah, that the these big projects are always kind of floating out there. And then you’re right. I’d take a week. I’ll work on it for a week and
31:2231 minutes, 22 secondsthen I’ll be like, “Ah, I can’t do that anymore. Okay, let’s do something else.”
31:2531 minutes, 25 secondsyou know. Yeah. But I like having a lot of things happening at the same time. I never get bored,
31:3331 minutes, 33 secondsyou know. Bored. Bored.
31:3631 minutes, 36 secondsYeah. I I can’t imagine actually. I mean, and and that’s the thing, too. I think it’s a it’s one of the really
31:4431 minutes, 44 secondsreally fun things about being so diverse is that we can do a million things at the same time and we’re kind of cool with it, you know.
31:5231 minutes, 52 secondsYeah. Yeah. And and I have to laugh about it because, you know, like like just the other day somebody uh sent an email introducing me to someone else and
32:0132 minutes, 1 secondthey were like, “Yeah, he’s uh the chair of AES and he does this and he does that and you know, blah blah blah.” You know,
32:0732 minutes, 7 secondsand I I read these things sometimes and I think, wait a minute, who the hell are you talking about? You It’s like, wow, am I really doing all those things at the same time?
32:1632 minutes, 16 secondsYeah, you are. Yeah. Yeah. It’s it’s fun, actually. I mean,
32:2032 minutes, 20 secondsI’m really really grateful for that. And I, you know, I think that’s one of the reasons I really love watching you do your stuff is because I feel I feel this kindred soul there, you know. So,
32:3132 minutes, 31 secondsyeah.
32:3232 minutes, 32 secondsWell, I always I I always thought uh that you were a kindred soul just because of your sense of humor, which I love.
32:4032 minutes, 40 secondsI get a lot of about that actually.
32:4332 minutes, 43 secondsAnd you play bass and you’re still okay. You know, I have actually I have long believed that bass
32:5132 minutes, 51 secondsplayers often become producers because I think, you know, we’re not soloists,
32:5632 minutes, 56 secondsright? I mean, you know, other than the bad joke about bass solos, you know, but we’re not soloists. We have to look back and see that 30,000 foot view of the
33:0533 minutes, 5 secondswhole piece, you know, and I think it’s a, you know, it’s a lot different than being a lead guitarist or a lead singer, you know.
33:1233 minutes, 12 secondsYeah. Right. It’s a different voice. The bass is really holding down, you know, the structure of a song.
33:1933 minutes, 19 secondsIt is. It is. And it’s so subtle, you know. It’s like you can change one note and change the whole song.
33:2433 minutes, 24 secondsOh, and it’s true. Absolutely. And you Yeah. And it’s the most underappreciated instrument in the band.
33:3233 minutes, 32 secondsIt is. It is. Actually, it’s funny, you know, um I I married a woman who was not at all in the music industry. After many, many years of dating, you know,
33:4133 minutes, 41 secondssingers and, you know, uh people working at record labels and everything. And when I met her, one of the things that really fascinated me was I said, “Yeah,
33:4833 minutes, 48 secondsI’m a bass player, you know, thinking she was going to be like, you know, and she was like, oh, oh, you mean you mean this thing and no, no, no, this thing.”
33:5633 minutes, 56 secondsYou know,
33:5833 minutes, 58 secondsbut it’s got Yeah. And and you know, I thought, “Wow,
34:0334 minutes, 3 secondsthis is really cool.” Like, you know, I I finally met somebody who isn’t going to tell me my snare sound sucks, you know. Oh, yeah. You don’t want that.
34:1034 minutes, 10 secondsNo. No. But it’s but it’s really um I think it’s interesting that, you know,
34:1734 minutes, 17 secondsone of the things that we are always kind of wrapped up in is how deeply we’re immersed in these in these
34:2434 minutes, 24 secondsprojects, you know, and then like, you know, you have to show it to people who really they’re surface level. they’re completely, you know, not really
34:3334 minutes, 33 secondsimmersed in it. And that’s again, you know, it’s like pulling yourself back from it and having that perspective to say, “What does this sound like to the average punter?”
34:4334 minutes, 43 secondsYeah. And that’s scary, you know, being a producer and working on other people’s music. Um, there’s there’s a certain
34:5034 minutes, 50 secondsdisconnection that I have with that music. It’s not my music.
34:5534 minutes, 55 secondsAnd uh so I I don’t have to be um but when it comes to my art or graphics,
35:0635 minutes, 6 secondsgoodness, I get upset and and I don’t even try. I’m like I don’t even I don’t I try not to get upset, but if someone
35:1435 minutes, 14 secondsdoesn’t like my weird painting, you know, then I just uh I it you know Well,
35:2035 minutes, 20 secondsI don’t weird painting. Can I show you one? Yeah. Yeah, please. I get it off the wall over here. Hang.
35:2935 minutes, 29 secondsAll right. All right. So, this is a painting. Can you see?
35:3535 minutes, 35 secondsYeah. There you go. That is a That is a painting called science.
35:4135 minutes, 41 secondsAnd it’s uh See, that’s George Washington Carver, the inventor. And that’s Marie Curry.
35:4835 minutes, 48 secondsMarie Cury, of course. And uh and I don’t know. You know what?
35:5335 minutes, 53 secondsI was drinking a lot of uh benadryil at the time, liquid
36:0036 minutesbenadryil and and it was like and that that’s what happened. It’s like
36:0936 minutes, 9 secondsso so all all the antlers were that was that like a a a byproduct of the benadryil?
36:1436 minutes, 14 secondsI think so. I mean because it’s a hippopotus giraffe moose. Hipper. Wow. Giraffam moose. God, I love that.
36:2436 minutes, 24 secondsI know. I like I love it, too, but people don’t necessarily understand.
36:3136 minutes, 31 secondsOh my god. Are you kidding? That’s like Dr. Seuss on acid. I love it. Yes. Dr. Seuss on acid.
36:4136 minutes, 41 secondsThat’s brilliant. Yeah, I you know I I love stuff like that. I was an art major in in high school. Actually, you were. See, we are kindred spirits.
36:4936 minutes, 49 secondsWhere did you live in the Bay Area? Uh, I lived in the city. In the city. Wow.
36:5536 minutes, 55 secondsI lived in the city. In fact, when I first got to San Francisco, I landed in the Hate Ashberry, having read um the
37:0337 minutes, 3 secondsElectric Kool-Aid Acid Test and another obscure book uh called Ringalivio.
37:0837 minutes, 8 secondsUm, which was about the diggers, if you remember, uh, all those stories about the free store and stuff like that. And
37:1537 minutes, 15 secondsI landed in the Hate Ashbury and I landed in a commune called the Goodear Commune.
37:2237 minutes, 22 secondsAnd a week after I landed in San Francisco, I was working the uh Grateful Dead and Jefferson Airplane concerts in Golden Gate Park.
37:3137 minutes, 31 secondsOh my god, you were hooked. Oh, dude, you have no idea. Yeah. Yeah.
37:3937 minutes, 39 secondsWas this uh 70s? 70s. Yes. Yes. Oh, that was a good time. Wow.
37:4737 minutes, 47 secondsI was a I was a weward teenager. uh I left home early and uh basically came across the country and ended up in San
37:5537 minutes, 55 secondsFrancisco and um you know so I was I was a hippie in the end of the 70s and then when the punk thing came in like 7980
38:0438 minutes, 4 secondsoh man that was like you know and and it was so funny cuz I have this vivid memory of um I was in I was in a band
38:1238 minutes, 12 secondswith a friend of mine and we were driving along Goth Street in my Volvo of
38:1938 minutes, 19 secondscourse, right? And um there was I I had a Grateful Dead sticker on the back that he had actually put on there at one
38:2638 minutes, 26 secondspoint and this car this Carmen Gia convertible goes by us with three punks in the in the car and there’s one guy in the back seat such as it is, you know,
38:3638 minutes, 36 secondsin a Carmen Gia, right? So he’s like half out of the car, you know, and he’s got this two-toned crew cut and he yells as we’re as they’re driving past us,
38:4538 minutes, 45 seconds”Hey, the Grateful Dead. You should listen to Flipper. And it did. And you did it.
38:5338 minutes, 53 secondsYes.
38:5438 minutes, 54 secondsOh yeah. Oh yeah. And you know we um as I said we we rehearsed at this studio uh China Blue Studios and it was all punks
39:0139 minutes, 1 secondexcept for us and and you know gradually we became sort of you know new wavy. I wasn’t quite hardcore enough to be a punk, but I was, you know, I was in the
39:1039 minutes, 10 secondsskinny tie bands, you know, and um into like Joe Jackson and Elvis Costello and all that stuff, you know, and um you
39:1839 minutes, 18 secondsknow, because I I loved the intellectual thing, you know, the Elvis Costello thing.
39:2439 minutes, 24 secondsYeah. You know, it’s like I had to listen to the lyrics and the lyrics were, you know, I didn’t want to hear like we’re pretty vacant. I wanted to hear like, you know, is she really going
39:3239 minutes, 32 secondsout with him and stuff like that, you know? Um but but really I mean it was such the same thing and I’m sure you went through this too. It’s like the
39:4039 minutes, 40 secondstransition from this um you know from hippie to to punk. It was you know everybody thinks it’s like diametrically
39:4839 minutes, 48 secondsopposed. Man, it was such a logical step. It was I I totally agree. And Daniel,
39:5439 minutes, 54 secondsnow that we know this uh story about you, I want to see photos of I’ll send you some.
40:0240 minutes, 2 secondsOh, send No, you have to put it in the You put it in the podcast.
40:0640 minutes, 6 secondsOh, I I will. I’ll put them up in the podcast, too, but I can’t find them right now. But I actually, in fact, um I was in one particular band. We were
40:1340 minutes, 13 secondscalled the Pedestrians. And um funny story about that, we played the uh Golden Gate Park panhandle one year. And um we all had long hair at that point.
40:2640 minutes, 26 secondsUh three-piece band. All three of us had long hair. And then I started hanging around with this one one woman who was a
40:3340 minutes, 33 secondslittle bit punky and she was into like Chrissy Hind and stuff like that. And all of a sudden, you know, my my listening habits changed. And then she
40:4040 minutes, 40 secondstook me to her hairdresser and her hairdresser just like looked at my hair and went, “Oh, I you know.” And
40:4740 minutes, 47 secondsshe I I basically walked out of there with a um sort of a stray cats Elvis from hell kind of look, you know, with
40:5440 minutes, 54 secondsthe waterfall thing in the front and stuff like that.
40:5840 minutes, 58 secondsI walked into band practice, my bandmates did a triple take. You know what the hell, right? And a week later,
41:0641 minutes, 6 secondsboth of my bandmates had cut their hair, cut off their mustaches and facial hair.
41:1141 minutes, 11 secondsAnd so we had to go back, you know, we had taken these photos, these promo photos because we were called the pedestrians. We went out to I I think I
41:1841 minutes, 18 secondscan’t remember where it was out by Golden Gate Park. We stood in front of a pedestrian sign in a, you know, in the middle island of a busy street, right?
41:2841 minutes, 28 secondsAnd we had to go back to the same one like about a week later to retake the photos because we had different hair,
41:3441 minutes, 34 secondsyou know, and so I have a before and after shot.
41:3741 minutes, 37 secondsOh god. Do you do you edit these podcasts? Because you got to put that in the podcast.
41:4241 minutes, 42 secondsI’ll stick it in there. Sure. I’m brave enough. What the hell, you know?
41:4741 minutes, 47 secondsBut but you know the funniest part about it is that all of a sudden once we got our hairs her hair cuts we started getting gigs. Uhhuh.
41:5541 minutes, 55 secondsYou know remember Durk Dirkson who used to book the Boohai, you know. That’s on broad on Broadway, right?
42:0142 minutes, 1 secondYep. Yep. So Durk booked us and you know all of a sudden we were getting all of these gigs. Um we uh we opened for Pearl
42:0942 minutes, 9 secondsHarbor and the Explosions. We opened for um oh god The Mutants and a few other you know. Oh, well that because of the hair.
42:1742 minutes, 17 secondsBecause of the hair. Because all of a sudden we looked good, you know, and uh you know, we got airplay on was it KUSF and KLX and all of the the local
42:2642 minutes, 26 secondsstations, you know, all because all of a sudden we looked the part. Wow. Yeah. Yeah, it is. Is it ever going to happen again?
42:3542 minutes, 35 secondsAre we going to see the same kind of thing ever again?
42:3742 minutes, 37 secondsOh god. You know, I really hope so, but I it’s going to be totally different this time, I think. you know, it’s I mean, obviously the music industry is is
42:4642 minutes, 46 secondsnever going back to what it was, which is probably a good thing, you know. Um,
42:5142 minutes, 51 secondsbut you know, I love the fact that we are now to the point where we are actually indie is coming back to a certain extent because it has to.
43:0043 minutesVinyl vinyl is now super indie and super fun. Wow. Yeah. Yeah.
43:0843 minutes, 8 secondsAnd I’m grateful for that, you know. I’m really grateful that um that especially for people like us who I feel, you know,
43:1643 minutes, 16 secondsin a certain sense I feel like we’re kind of perpetually young, you know, and um I love that, man. I love being able
43:2343 minutes, 23 secondsto, you know, it’s funny because I I’m in classes now with people who were born
43:3043 minutes, 30 secondsin this century, you know, and and I literally I worked with um you know,
43:3643 minutes, 36 secondsbecause one of the things I do, I teach advanced production. I teach um it’s like I I said to them, “Look, I know enough about ProTools to get myself in
43:4343 minutes, 43 secondstrouble. I’m not going to teach ProTools. I’m going to teach you when to keep your mouth shut. I’m going to teach you how to work with the artist, you know.” And so I’m in there working with,
43:5443 minutes, 54 secondsyou know, singer songwriters. And I I said to this one three-piece band, I said, you know, this sort of reminds me of um you guys ever heard of the Pretenders?
44:0244 minutes, 2 secondsNo. I said, “Okay, here’s your listening assignment.” You know?
44:0644 minutes, 6 secondsAh. Right. Right. Right. And they came back next, you know, the next session and said, “Oh man, I really like that.”
44:1144 minutes, 11 secondsYou know, and so it’s like it’s wonderful to be able to pass this kind of, you know, this kind of baton, so to speak, you know.
44:2144 minutes, 21 secondsYeah. And the and the just the skill of listening, you know, to to just teach that, I think, is really important.
44:2944 minutes, 29 secondsYeah. Yeah. And I really love that. And I think that is going to be what saves the music industry.
44:3644 minutes, 36 secondsOh, let’s hope so,
44:3944 minutes, 39 secondsplease. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, I’m I’m grateful that people like us are still around and passing that wisdom on.
44:4844 minutes, 48 secondsI um I really truly love what you’re doing with younger artists now. And uh thank you very much. I’ve always uh had
44:5644 minutes, 56 secondsa had a thing for young artists mainly because they come in and they’re all brighteyed. they they they uh you know
45:0345 minutes, 3 secondsthe world is uh uh is is completely open to them and and they haven’t been beaten down by
45:1045 minutes, 10 secondsright they’re not cyn well they’re they’re cynical but they’re cynical in a different way you know it’s yeah uh so I try to teach them good
45:1845 minutes, 18 secondshabits and also uh ways to think that that won’t restrict them later on yeah what’s that what’s that phrase piss
45:2745 minutes, 27 secondsand vinegar you know um yeah they’re they’re they’re really You know, they come in with this energy that, you know,
45:3345 minutes, 33 secondsour jaded compatriots may not have anymore.
45:3645 minutes, 36 secondsYeah. Yeah. Well, you get someone who’s been in a few sessions and boy, they’ll tell you exactly what to do. I’m like, “Okay, whatever. It’s your music.”
45:4545 minutes, 45 secondsYeah.
45:4645 minutes, 46 secondsExactly. Exactly. Yeah. Well, I really um Well, well, let me let me ask you the one question I usually wrap with because
45:5345 minutes, 53 secondsI think it probably really applies to you. What do you tell 15year-old you coming into the industry now?
46:0146 minutes, 1 secondOh,
46:0346 minutes, 3 secondsI think 15year-old me should learn how to code.
46:1846 minutes, 18 secondsI you know uh AI is going to be a wonderful tool for for all of us.
46:2446 minutes, 24 secondsYou still have to be able to manipulate it and you need to speak to it. You learn
46:3046 minutes, 30 secondshow 15year-old learn how to talk to your uh digital uh uh life partners.
46:3946 minutes, 39 secondsYeah. They’re they’re here for for good.
46:4246 minutes, 42 secondsThey’re here for good. And you know if you can get them to not if you can get it so you’re not depending on them to
46:4946 minutes, 49 secondscreate but rather to spur you to create you know.
46:5346 minutes, 53 secondsYeah. Well it’s a tool for creation. I mean it’s still the ideas are still yours.
46:5946 minutes, 59 secondsThe ideas are still yours and the music is still human.
47:0347 minutes, 3 secondsBut uh remember when when synthesizers came around when drum machines came around and they were all gonna replace us.
47:1147 minutes, 11 secondsAre cooked, right? No more guitars. Oh my god.
47:1447 minutes, 14 secondsRight. Right. And you know, the truth of the matter is you put something like that in the hands of a great artist and what’s the first thing they’re going to do? They’re going to figure out how they can break it.
47:2247 minutes, 22 secondsYes.
47:2347 minutes, 23 secondsYou know, I mean, like, how can I use this for something it wasn’t intended for?
47:2847 minutes, 28 secondsThank you. That I read a book about all that.
47:3147 minutes, 31 secondsThat’s that’s what I love to do. You know, how can I break this? You know, I remember talking to um who was it?
47:3747 minutes, 37 secondsRichard Factor telling me about when he first when they first introduced the um the Even Tide harmonizer. Oh yeah.
47:4547 minutes, 45 secondsAnd he said, you know, we had no idea that people were going to start using it for that, you know. I was like, no,
47:5047 minutes, 50 secondsthat’s not what it was intended. That’s not the point, you know, right?
47:5447 minutes, 54 secondsIt’s like, yeah, what can we do with these tools as real artists? You know,
48:0148 minutes, 1 secondwe’re going to do stuff that you didn’t think of.
48:0348 minutes, 3 secondsAnd that’s that’s exciting. And that’s very exciting because the 15 year olds out there are going to be doing that and they’re they’re going to be, you know, I
48:1148 minutes, 11 secondsmy friend has a a a 13-year-old and he’s on his phone. Like his little finger is just going so fast. I’m like, wow.
48:1948 minutes, 19 secondsYeah.
48:2048 minutes, 20 secondsAnd he’s like creating all this stuff on on iPads and it’s like, wow. Okay.
48:2648 minutes, 26 secondsYeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, my students come in and, you know, they’re just doing stuff that just blows me away, you know? It’s like,
48:3348 minutes, 33 secondsdamn. stuff. This is all old. Don’t learn how to you don’t need to learn how to use this stuff.
48:4148 minutes, 41 secondsReally? And like, you know, or you could pay me a lot of money and then I’ll teach you. Yeah. Yeah.
48:4648 minutes, 46 secondsThis is a skill that you probably won’t be using a whole lot of in the future.
48:5148 minutes, 51 secondsSo, just to say Yeah. You know, I mean, we have 2inch machines in the back of of the studio at the at the college, you know, and I feel
48:5848 minutes, 58 secondslike, okay, that’s great. you know, if you want to learn how to how to wrench an old Chevy, you know, there there’s probably a market for that, too. Yeah.
49:0549 minutes, 5 secondsBut ultimately, you don’t need that stuff to make music anymore.
49:0949 minutes, 9 secondsNo, but it’s nice to have a nice uh sports car sitting in the garage, you know.
49:1349 minutes, 13 secondsIt absolutely is. It absolutely is. I love the I love the old stuff, but I also realize that, you know, it it ain’t
49:2149 minutes, 21 secondsit ain’t what you need anymore. No. You know,
49:2349 minutes, 23 secondshowever, microphones remain. It’s extremely important still no matter what you’re plugging it into. So,
49:3049 minutes, 30 secondswell, u I I I cheer you on that. Um, you know, I I I used to maintain the microphone closet at Cherokee,
49:3849 minutes, 38 secondsso I I I cheer you on that. Um, I’m a big fan of great microphones. I’m a big fan of great gear.
49:4549 minutes, 45 secondsAlways have been, you know. So, that’s never going to change. And that’s just who we are, you know.
49:5049 minutes, 50 secondsYeah. But it’s it’s but ultimately they’re all just tools. They’re all just tools.
49:5749 minutes, 57 secondsYeah. And yeah, I uh on that note,
50:0150 minutes, 1 secondSylvia Massie, thank you so much for being my guest. Yeah. I appreciate it. Terrific. Finally.
50:0750 minutes, 7 secondsYes. I’m glad we finally got this happening. And um I will be back in touch with you very soon when all this
50:1450 minutes, 14 secondsis edited and you can you can u give me about the photos that I put in there so that we can talk about that as well. And um I’ll look forward to seeing you again in the future.
50:2450 minutes, 24 secondsAll right. Thanks. Thanks. Bye now. Bye.
50:3250 minutes, 32 secondsHey, I’m Daniel Keller. Don’t forget to hit the subscribe button and join us each week for Insights and Sound.

Sync to video time