Insights In Sound 208 – Taylor Jaymin, Immersive Mixer, NoiseHouse Productions – S21, E 8

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0:2727 secondsI’m here with Taylor Jamon. We are at the Noise House Production Studios in
0:3333 secondsbeautiful Orange County. And uh this is a really really nice immersive Atmos
0:4141 secondsroom here. Very very impressive, I got to say. And I mean, we’re going to get into that in a minute. This is basically
0:4848 secondswhat you do is you you not only do Atmos mixes, but you you basically design these rooms, right? Part of what you do.
0:5656 secondsI actually built this room, designed it and built it. Uh first time doing it a lot of uh YouTube and
1:031 minute, 3 secondsum luckily I found some uh design plans online from uh Studio DMI in Vegas
1:121 minute, 12 secondsand kind of like helped me see behind the curtain of of you know the little nuances that they did to make a a room work um and sound good. So,
1:241 minute, 24 secondsum, I actually showed Rob, he came down here and I showed him that and he was cracking up. He’s like, “No way.” Like,
1:291 minute, 29 seconds”Where did you find that?” And, um, so yeah, I was able to just get a few things that I wasn’t sure how they did
1:361 minute, 36 secondsit just online. And then kind of guess work, right?
1:401 minute, 40 secondsYeah. A couple uh couple friends helped me. It took about three months. Um, but yeah, very proud of uh the room that we have here. So,
1:481 minute, 48 secondsyeah, it I mean, not only sounds great, it looks good.
1:511 minute, 51 secondsThank you. It’s kind of It’s got a nice vibe to it, too.
1:541 minute, 54 secondsYeah. And the the team here, Daniel, the owner, Rachel, and uh other team members helped out too with the design and, you know, how they wanted it to look.
2:042 minutes, 4 secondsYeah. The aesthetic is really nice. I dig the black and white sort of, you know, and uh can change any color, too. So,
2:112 minutes, 11 secondsthat’s Yeah.
2:132 minutes, 13 secondsHey, nice. Um, I want to first start by diving into your background a little bit because you u we were talking earlier about the um,
2:222 minutes, 22 secondsyou know, I’m always fascinated with people’s career paths, you know, because like when we start out when we’re, you
2:292 minutes, 29 secondsknow, in our teens and in our early 20s and everything, we’re like, I know exactly what I’m going to do, man.
2:352 minutes, 35 secondsExactly. Right. Like I’m, you know, and by the time you get there, you’ve like done this kind of circumlocious kind of thing. Exactly. You started off
2:442 minutes, 44 secondsbasically DJing, right? That was your first correct your first gig, right?
2:482 minutes, 48 secondsUm I started off actually drumming when I was younger from my dad, of course. Of course.
2:542 minutes, 54 secondsAnd I really didn’t want that much to do with music, but he’s a professional drummer. He taught me. I was really good
3:013 minutes, 1 secondat it, but I I don’t know. I just didn’t want anything to do with music when I was when I was younger. And then was that like rebelling against your
3:103 minutes, 10 secondsdad? cuz your dad was basically uh for context, your dad was uh a drummer in uh a band, an ‘8s band called Stacy Q.
3:193 minutes, 19 secondsYes.
3:203 minutes, 20 secondsAnd uh after that, he also did a whole lot of of like TV work and and stuff like that. And uh I mean I’ve known your
3:283 minutes, 28 secondsdad for a lot of years.
3:323 minutes, 32 secondsAnd uh you know, I will say I mean he’s proud papa man. you know, you’ve done well and he’s, you know, but again, starting out as a drummer,
3:403 minutes, 40 secondsbut being not but not wanting to have anything to do with music.
3:443 minutes, 44 secondsYeah. Like you said, I was rebelling against, you know, what what your parents did and even though it was awesome what he was doing and he was
3:513 minutes, 51 secondsreally good at it, I just wanted nothing to do with it. And then, you know, when I turned 18ish, I started DJing and did
4:014 minutes, 1 secondthat for 10 plus years and started producing. And I just knew the whole time when I was DJing, there was always
4:094 minutes, 9 secondsthis, you know, voice in the back of my head saying, “This isn’t it, but you’re on the right path. Keep keep going.” you
4:174 minutes, 17 secondsknow, I was releasing music and, you know, got to release on some awesome labels and I got to experience, you know, what an artist would go through at
4:264 minutes, 26 secondsthese bigger gigs and festivals and and all that. And it it was it was a lot of fun.
4:314 minutes, 31 secondsMhm. And then I would say I don’t know about
4:374 minutes, 37 secondsmaybe seven years ago is when I started diving more into mixing and mastering.
4:464 minutes, 46 secondsAnd I always liked that process more when I was producing because you know uh
4:534 minutes, 53 secondsEDM DJ producers we’re the only genre where we do everything. we have to write the song, you know, and we don’t have teams. And,
5:015 minutes, 1 secondyou know, you don’t know that at the time that these indie bands, these pop stars have just these massive teams helping every step along the way.
5:105 minutes, 10 secondsProducers for every track, man. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.
5:135 minutes, 13 secondsYou know, you don’t realize that until you get, you know, deeper into the scene. But, um, I always like the mixing, mastering part, um, more. And um
5:235 minutes, 23 secondsyou know I I don’t know if it was just me growing up maturing and saying hey it’s okay like to you don’t have to be
5:315 minutes, 31 secondsthe artist like you and I guess you know I had to get mature enough to have a conversation with myself that says do what makes you happy
5:405 minutes, 40 secondsand and it’s okay to go that down that path concept. Yeah.
5:435 minutes, 43 secondsRight. And um so yeah, that is basically how I got to the place where I’m at is like you said, zigzagging and you know,
5:535 minutes, 53 secondsI I always knew, you know, I was on the right path, but maybe not doing what I loved, but it was helping me. And now,
6:046 minutes, 4 secondsbasically, when I’m working with an artist,
6:076 minutes, 7 secondsI know exactly what they’re going through. Are they on tour? Are they, you know, what where is their head at? and and I I didn’t get to that massive, you
6:156 minutes, 15 secondsknow, level, but I still understand where they’re at and what they’re thinking and what they’re going through.
6:196 minutes, 19 secondsAnd, you know, did they just have a really bad routing day on on their, you know, on their tour? Probably not a good
6:276 minutes, 27 secondsday. Let them rest, you know, hit them up the next day. um those little nuances that you just wouldn’t know unless you went through it, you know.
6:346 minutes, 34 secondsAnd and you know, actually to your point, that’s an interesting thing you bring up because I’ve always thought that the people and
6:426 minutes, 42 secondsand most of us most of us don’t get to that that what you call that holy grail thing, right?
6:486 minutes, 48 secondsBut I think in a certain way that makes us more capable of understanding what those artists are going through because we didn’t get lost
6:576 minutes, 57 secondsin all of the hype. You know, it’s like a friend of mine uh once made an observation that I really liked. He said, you know, we’re the first row of the audience.
7:067 minutes, 6 secondsMhm.
7:067 minutes, 6 secondsYou know, and we’re it’s like we we understand what the artist is going through. We see we don’t just see the show.
7:147 minutes, 14 secondsWe see the before the show, we see the prep, we see the after the show, we see all the boredom of the tour bus, we see
7:217 minutes, 21 secondsall that stuff. And I think that perspective first of all I mean obviously the punters don’t know anything about that
7:297 minutes, 29 secondsright they just know like the hour and a half or whatever that they’re there wow you know but even like I think you know we get to see
7:387 minutes, 38 secondsthis part of it that is really like what do they call it like like how the sausage is made you know and there’s some really scary in there man you know this you know
7:477 minutes, 47 secondsand especially because artists in general we tend to I’ll be kind and say, you know, we’re a
7:557 minutes, 55 secondslittle whacked out. You know, we’re all on the spectrum somewhere, you know, right?
7:597 minutes, 59 secondsAnd so, like being able to understand that.
8:028 minutes, 2 secondsUm, and then I think also the aspect that as you say, you know, you figured all this out on your own.
8:088 minutes, 8 secondsI think so many of us are u I use a big word here, autodidacts. You know, we’re all self-taught. We all figure all this stuff out usually in a vacuum,
8:198 minutes, 19 secondsyou know, usually either we’re going on YouTube University, you know, or if we’re lucky, maybe somebody will give us, you know, some feedback. Usually the
8:288 minutes, 28 secondsfeedback we get, you don’t know if you can trust it anyway, you know, and so it’s like that kind of leads to imposttor syndrome because we don’t really know if we know what we’re doing.
8:388 minutes, 38 secondsExactly. I had this incident that happened to me, you know, I taught myself how to how to edit video at one point, you know, and I had no idea what
8:458 minutes, 45 secondsI was doing, you know. I dragged a bunch of cameras in. I start doing shoots for my clients, you know, and then I like,
8:518 minutes, 51 secondsoh, okay, so, uh, Final Cut, okay, and I, you know, I started doing this and I started like, okay, I drag this around,
8:568 minutes, 56 secondsI do this, I cut it, you know, and so I was doing that for like maybe four or five years, right? And then I talked to this guy, this, I interviewed this one
9:049 minutes, 4 secondsguy and he had been like a video journalist. Mhm.
9:089 minutes, 8 secondsUm for National Geographic have been all over the world like you know interviewing like he’s telling me like
9:149 minutes, 14 secondsinterviewing these monks and you know um and stuff right and so he starts describing to me how he does his edits
9:229 minutes, 22 secondsand I remember all of a sudden it dawned on me I’m thinking I’m doing it right. Mhm.
9:279 minutes, 27 secondsYou know it’s like you kind of discover Yeah. all this stuff for yourself you know. Yeah. And man, I mean, you know,
9:359 minutes, 35 secondsobviously you figured it out, but damn,
9:379 minutes, 37 secondsyou know, I’m sure there was a hell of a lot of uh hunt and peck,
9:419 minutes, 41 secondsyou know, and just like kind of figuring it out as you went. Yeah, 100%. And to your point, too,
9:489 minutes, 48 secondswe don’t really get uh you’re kind of always second guessing yourself until,
9:539 minutes, 53 secondsyou know, a big name, big artist gives you the thumbs up and says, “This is awesome.” And then all of a sudden,
9:589 minutes, 58 secondseverybody around you is like, “You’re awesome.”
10:0010 minutesRight? Hey, even though you’re like, I’m not doing anything different. Like my mixes, whatever has always been at that level. And yeah, I’m always progressing,
10:0610 minutes, 6 secondsgetting better, but it it’s funny how like some people need that outer validation, you know, from a bigger artist that gives you the thumbs up and then then you’re in.
10:1710 minutes, 17 secondsYeah. Exactly.
10:1710 minutes, 17 secondsSo, and then, oh, that guy said, you know, he’s good, so now I can work with that person. And then you kind of just go up the ladder. Yeah. Um, so yeah.
10:2510 minutes, 25 secondsYeah. But you know what’s funny about that is that no matter how high up that ladder you go, you there’s still always
10:3110 minutes, 31 secondsthat voice, you know, it’s I mean uh I think there’s always that voice that’s like, you know, you don’t really know what you’re doing,
10:3910 minutes, 39 secondsright? You know, and it’s like we’re always just guessing, you know, and then what’s so funny about that is that, you know, you meet all of these like really big,
10:4710 minutes, 47 secondsyou know, big names, right? And you realize they’re always tripping on somebody else, too, right? It’s like, oh, you know, I I don’t really know if I really
10:5610 minutes, 56 secondsknow everything because, you know, does so and so like my stuff, you know? Exactly.
11:0011 minutesAnd I don’t know if you ever get to a point where you’re just like really, you know,
11:0411 minutes, 4 secondsI don’t know. I’m chasing that, too. If you ever get to a point where you’re like, I’m good. Right. Um. Right.
11:1011 minutes, 10 secondsBut I I feel like working with bigger artists, it’s more of learning their lingo because everybody calls something a little different and they mean
11:1811 minutes, 18 secondssomething a little different. So, it’s more of like connecting with them and being like, “Oh, okay. So, you call that this, you know, term and just kind of
11:2711 minutes, 27 secondslike getting to know them in that way because I’ve definitely ran into the problem where they’re like, “Oh, do this.” And then I do it and then they’re
11:3511 minutes, 35 secondslike, “Wait, no, I I just meant I wanted it louder.” Or like I’m like, “You said distortion. Like, you wanted it more,
11:4211 minutes, 42 secondsyou know, gritty and distorted.” And they’re like, “Oh, sorry. No, I didn’t.” Like, you know, I meant it in that way.
11:4711 minutes, 47 secondsAnd so just like miscommunication like that. Um so yeah it’s interpretation you know and that’s actually I mean you know when I
11:5611 minutes, 56 secondswas an engineer in the studios I learned a lot about that too. It’s like learning how to read the room read the artist you know I had a
12:0412 minutes, 4 secondsexactly had a a guitar player one time ask me if I could make his guitar sound a little more brown. It’s like like, you know, and I guessed,
12:1212 minutes, 12 secondsyou know, I guessed, right? You know, he wanted like a little more uh, you know,
12:1612 minutes, 16 secondsmid-range, you know, kind of in in the EQ,
12:2012 minutes, 20 secondsbut it’s like, you have no idea what people are really talking about. You know, you’re guessing the whole way, man. Yeah.
12:2512 minutes, 25 secondsAnd I think that’s part of our whole career path, you know.
12:2812 minutes, 28 secondsExactly. you know, but uh so so tell me a little bit about how you got to this like what you’re doing now and what and
12:3712 minutes, 37 secondsyou know describe to me what you’re doing in this room. So,
12:4212 minutes, 42 secondslike I said earlier, when I kind of took a step back from producing and was focusing more on mixing and
12:4812 minutes, 48 secondsmastering, um, is when I got a job here at Noise House. And we handle a wide
12:5612 minutes, 56 secondsrange of of things with video. We do music festivals. We do um live stream
13:0313 minutes, 3 secondsaudio. Um, we work for or Insomniac is one of our clients and we produce Insomniac Radio
13:1213 minutes, 12 secondsand um, we actually Insomniac Radio is upstairs. We have a full live um, we have four stations live right now
13:2013 minutes, 20 secondsrunning from upstairs which is really cool. Wow. Um,
13:2313 minutes, 23 secondsso you do live streaming from up there as well?
13:2513 minutes, 25 secondsYeah, exactly. So we we uh, we can do it all. But back to your question, how I got here was basically one of my good
13:3213 minutes, 32 secondsfriends worked here and they were looking for another producer, but a producer that could also do uh understood live events, uh live
13:4113 minutes, 41 secondsaudio, you know, that aspect because they wanted to up their game on the live set recordings and on the broadcasts and
13:5013 minutes, 50 secondsand all that. So, I was able to fill both uh roles for that. And you’ve done that stuff already?
13:5613 minutes, 56 secondsOh, yeah. For six years, I’ve been uh all the Insomniac festivals around the United States and Mexico City and um all over.
14:0714 minutes, 7 secondsSo, yeah, we uh we record all the sets on all the stages and and are you doing immersive when you do live as well?
14:1514 minutes, 15 secondsWe were. There’s some big challenges with that, man.
14:1814 minutes, 18 secondsYeah. Uh, we were and then Apple jumped in because I was basically getting kind of
14:2614 minutes, 26 secondsstretched too thin on everything and they they really upped their game once,
14:3114 minutes, 31 secondsyou know, once they saw like what I could do and then they brought in a full team that just that is, you know, they
14:3714 minutes, 37 secondshave, you know, three people per stage there the entire time, right?
14:4214 minutes, 42 secondsAnd that’s what you need. And um you know I was just doing it on a budget and you know I got it to sound great but it
14:5014 minutes, 50 secondswas a lot of running around and you know I mean I’d be walking like 40 miles a day at the festivals
14:5814 minutes, 58 secondsjust stage to stage right with a little wagon you know and it was it was a lot and then also doing the live broadcast on top of that. So,
15:1015 minutes, 10 secondsum, you know, I I’m I’m really happy where it’s at now and, you know, the team is giving me more support and I,
15:1815 minutes, 18 secondsyou know, can kind of I just kind of overlook everything and, you know, make sure it sounds good, everything’s dialed and then, you know, if and when, you know,
15:2515 minutes, 25 secondssomething happens, I’m on site and can fix it right away. So,
15:3015 minutes, 30 secondsbut you know what’s interesting about that? I mean, and this is a similar path to I’m sure to what I mean I because
15:3715 minutes, 37 secondsI’ve talked to your dad about this too and we’ve talked about this. It’s like we all go through this phase where we’re
15:4415 minutes, 44 secondstrying to do more than what we’re supposed to be doing with less,
15:5015 minutes, 50 secondsright? Like there’s a certain um there’s a certain power of those limits, right?
15:5415 minutes, 54 secondslike, you know, it’s like you’re given a certain amount of gear or a certain amount of technology and you go, “Yeah,
15:5915 minutes, 59 secondsbut I wish it could do right.” And you just try to stretch it and try to push those limits, you know,
16:0616 minutes, 6 secondsand then when you actually get the gear that does it right, you’re like, “Oh this is easy.” Exactly.
16:1216 minutes, 12 secondsBecause you’ve made you’ve made it work with so much less. Exactly.
16:1616 minutes, 16 secondsYeah. I actually know so many highlevel producers that started off with a shitty laptop that didn’t have enough
16:2316 minutes, 23 secondsprocessing power. So they would have to bounce in place, right,
16:2716 minutes, 27 secondsand keep going. And it just taught them this unique way of of working with what they had. But then they could create these really cool tracks from it. Yeah.
16:3516 minutes, 35 secondsAnd because of that,
16:3716 minutes, 37 secondsthey’ve evolved into these massive artists. And they still do that. They they have a $10,000 MacBook. And I see them bouncing and play. What are you
16:4616 minutes, 46 secondsdoing? Like that computer can like, you know, take us to the moon and back. What do you And it’s just it’s just habit,
16:5216 minutes, 52 secondsyou know? I just I’ve always done it this way. And it’s just it’s really interesting that you you know, you limit them and watch what they do with that.
16:5916 minutes, 59 secondsBut you know to a certain extent that’s not bad because one of the things that um I mean for me having come up like I
17:0717 minutes, 7 secondscame up you know I had a four track and then I had eight track and then I had 24 tracks in the studio and you know now of
17:1517 minutes, 15 secondscourse we you know there’s no limit but what that I think what that did also is it forced you to make decisions right
17:2417 minutes, 24 secondsand it forc you to exactly and and I think those decisions are your friends Because otherwise, you know, it’s like I’ve been in sessions where we’ve done,
17:3217 minutes, 32 secondsyou know, 15 20 vocal takes, right?
17:3617 minutes, 36 secondsAnd then and then it’s time to mix and you have no idea what you have,
17:4017 minutes, 40 secondsyou know, and you spend so much time chasing that stuff around. Yeah. You know,
17:4417 minutes, 44 secondstinkering around with stuff and it’s just a waste of time.
17:4717 minutes, 47 secondsI mean, it’s funny, man. I I remember having a conversation with um this really great producer. His name is Ed Stasium. And Ed did like the first Ramon’s albums, right? Yeah.
17:5817 minutes, 58 secondsAnd uh and so he was telling me about like the first session, one of the first sessions he did was um midnight train to Georgia.
18:0618 minutes, 6 secondsOkay. Glattis night. And he said, “Man, Glattus came in.” Right. And she said,
18:1118 minutes, 11 seconds”Okay, I’m ready.” She’s like sucking on her limb and she says, “I’m ready.” And then she does the whole vocal take one time through.
18:1818 minutes, 18 secondsRight. And then he said, she called me up a week later. She said, “I want to replace one line.”
18:2318 minutes, 23 secondsAnd so like, you know, he had to go someplace and set it up again. Replace.
18:2718 minutes, 27 secondsBut the whole point is like that whole thing is almost one contiguous performance, you know, and there’s something about that too.
18:3518 minutes, 35 secondsYeah.
18:3518 minutes, 35 secondsYou know, it’s like I totally dig people who can cut, you know, stuff into a million pieces and make it sound real and make it sound good, but there’s an
18:4318 minutes, 43 secondsart form to just being able to say, you know what, that’s it, man. You know, that’s good. Yeah. Right. It’s like that’s the mix,
18:5018 minutes, 50 secondsyou know, and that’s a that’s a commitment, you know?
18:5418 minutes, 54 secondsYeah. when you when you have that magic in the room and do a one take and you can just feel it. I I am one of those
19:0219 minutes, 2 secondsguys who can chop everything up and you know just get really surgical with everything and make it sound like one take. But
19:0919 minutes, 9 secondsI mean that’s that’s a dream when you’re just like they just knock this out of the park like that’s the talent man. Exactly.
19:1519 minutes, 15 secondsYou know and I think that’s what we’re really going for you know we’re going for capturing that magic you know when you know it’s there.
19:2319 minutes, 23 secondsMhm. You know, it’s like it’s funny,
19:2519 minutes, 25 secondsman, because you know, a lot of times you’ll have an artist in the studio and you’ll say and they’ll say like, “No, can I try one more?” And you could and you know, of course,
19:3219 minutes, 32 secondsyou’re not going to say no, right? You always want to say yes.
19:3519 minutes, 35 secondsBut, you know, the truth of the matter is it’s like, “Dude, you can try 20 more if you want,
19:3919 minutes, 39 secondsbut that was it.” You know, and you don’t say that, but you know that, you know, and ultimately they’ll try until they can’t even speak anymore. And then
19:4719 minutes, 47 secondsyou go, “Yeah, you know, I think the first one, you know, Yeah. It’s like, you know, when that magic’s there.” Exactly. Yeah.
19:5419 minutes, 54 secondsExactly.
19:5619 minutes, 56 secondsI’ve actually recorded a few vocalists in here, and um it it’s actually even though it’s not a vocal booth, but it it
20:0420 minutes, 4 secondssounds great in here. Yeah. I I actually love having them that close. Yeah. because I can feel, you know,
20:1120 minutes, 11 secondstheir energy and and all that and it’s a little bit more intimate and it I’m not,
20:1620 minutes, 16 secondsyou know, on a talk back like, “All right, do one more,” you know, and I I actually like that being able, you know,
20:2220 minutes, 22 secondsbe that close to them and I think it’s great when you can be in the room with them, you know, so I I always I mean, every good studio has a
20:2920 minutes, 29 secondsway to just plug in right here, you know, and even when I’ve worked with bands like um because, you know, I used to mainly produce like indie rock bands,
20:3720 minutes, 37 secondsright? And I have been in situations where I’ll literally go out there to encourage the drummer and I’ll jump up and down in front of him like an ape,
20:4720 minutes, 47 secondsyou know, just like Yeah. You know, to really like egg them on because sometimes, man, that’s the vibe, you know? You really you want them to feel it.
20:5520 minutes, 55 secondsExactly.
20:5620 minutes, 56 secondsYou know, and you want to feel it with them,
20:5820 minutes, 58 secondsyou know? I mean, to me, man, it’s like if we’re producers, we’re part of the band,
21:0321 minutes, 3 secondsyou know? We’re collaborators with the band, right? And that’s that’s what you want. You want to exactly feel that magic with them.
21:1021 minutes, 10 secondsAnd back to your point earlier too about um you know connecting and feeling the vibe with everybody too. So that’s
21:1721 minutes, 17 secondsdefinitely like you going out there is getting their energy and and you know make them not second guess themselves like what we were talking
21:2621 minutes, 26 secondsabout and and just give them that confidence of this does sound good. I am doing good. You know we’re we’re going to we’re going to knock this out of the park. So,
21:3421 minutes, 34 secondsMhm.
21:3521 minutes, 35 secondsback to your point too, how did I get into the Atmos? I was just going to take you there. Um,
21:4121 minutes, 41 secondsuh, basically once my boss gave uh gave us a go-ahad on building this, um, like I said, I was
21:4921 minutes, 49 secondsmixing and mastering a lot and Atmos always fascinated me and I I just always knew inside that
21:5821 minutes, 58 secondsAtmos was something that I wanted to do once I started learning about it, you know, years ago. But obviously, you
22:0522 minutes, 5 secondsknow, you need a room and that’s the only way to properly do this and
22:1222 minutes, 12 secondsthey’re expensive. Um, very very expensive. So, um, the only way that we were able to do this is that if I built
22:2122 minutes, 21 secondsit because, you know, we saved a lot of money by, you know, me by not hiring an architect and all that stuff. Yeah. Um, and I could tell when,
22:3122 minutes, 31 secondsyou know, we’re about to break ground, he was a little nervous. He was like,
22:3622 minutes, 36 seconds”Are you sure you got this?” Like, “This is a lot of money.” And I’m like, “I promise you I like, you know,” and he’s
22:4322 minutes, 43 secondsalways backed me. So, but I could tell like right before we we went through with it, he was a little little nervous because, you know, this is a lot. So,
22:5222 minutes, 52 secondsum, and then built it and, you know,
22:5522 minutes, 55 secondsimmediately started mixing and learning and, you know, getting up to a professional level at it because it’s a
23:0223 minutes, 2 secondswhole different ball game from doing a stereo mix and yeah,
23:0623 minutes, 6 secondsum, it’s a lot more fun. I personally think it it’s kind of reminds me of producing um,
23:1223 minutes, 12 secondshow you get to sculpt things and, you know, and all that. So,
23:1623 minutes, 16 secondsand that’s that’s actually was going to be my next question. So you kind of led me into it like what was it about especially because you came up working with other artists too, right?
23:2623 minutes, 26 secondsSo what was it about Atmos and about immersive that spoke to you in terms of how you worked with the artist?
23:3523 minutes, 35 secondsUm I don’t know what it was. It was just always this feeling that I got that was like that’s what you want to do. Like you know this is what you need to do.
23:4523 minutes, 45 secondsyou’re on the right path to to get there. And it’s funny like what we were talking about earlier is all the different things that I did that led me
23:5423 minutes, 54 secondsto this point. You know, it just wouldn’t make sense at the time cuz I had a different mindset. I thought I was doing that for to get to this goal, but
24:0324 minutes, 3 secondsthen things change and, you know, you go on a different path and all that. And it it’s funny all the things that I learned along the way that got me here. And I’m
24:1224 minutes, 12 secondsso thankful, you know, for all the mistakes that I made and all, you know, all those things that I went through. Mistakes are your friends.
24:1824 minutes, 18 secondsExactly. You know, definitely. Um, so it it taught me so much along the way. But,
24:2324 minutes, 23 secondsum, yeah, that’s how basically I got into immersive uh audio and mixing and all that. And it’s it’s what I want to
24:3124 minutes, 31 secondsdo. Um, even though I have so many different other job positions and everything that I’m doing at this company, this is my passion. I love it
24:3924 minutes, 39 secondsand I’m really good at it. So, it’s, you know, I’m I’m not going to stop. You ever get push back from the artists? Tons. Um,
24:4824 minutes, 48 secondsright now you can tell that it’s such a new thing that um you just feel kind of like they tie your hand behind your back and they say,
24:5724 minutes, 57 seconds”Don’t go too crazy. We want, you know,
24:5924 minutes, 59 secondswe want our listeners that are listening in AirPods or whatever to not know if they’re listening to the stereo mix or
25:0725 minutes, 7 secondsthe immersive mix, right? because if they accidentally go onto the immersive mix and it sounds completely different and they’re like, “Oh, what is this?”
25:1625 minutes, 16 secondsYou know, they don’t want to lose, you know, people go online and be like, “Oh, this song sucks. You suck.” You know, cuz they just don’t understand. So,
25:2425 minutes, 24 secondswe’re um definitely getting, you know, a lot of push back of just make it sound great, but don’t do anything too crazy.
25:3325 minutes, 33 secondsUm,
25:3325 minutes, 33 secondsand I guess part of that is making it being a be able to collapse down to like a stereo mix. Well, right. Which is another whole set of challenges.
25:4125 minutes, 41 secondsExactly. Yeah. So, yeah, that’s definitely I would say the number one thing that is from the big labels to the
25:4925 minutes, 49 secondsbig artists, they it’s just such a new format. And uh I
25:5725 minutes, 57 secondskind of feel like the more you know places you can start listening to immersive audio like cars and you know
26:0426 minutes, 4 secondsit’s coming in all the new cars and and all that. So, I think we’re probably about, you know, a year or two away from people just being like, “This is really,
26:1326 minutes, 13 secondsreally cool.” And now we get it. Because before you’d put on the AirPods and you’re like, “It sounds cool.” Like,
26:2026 minutes, 20 secondssounds like it’s moving around me. But you don’t really get that experience like you do in a physical, you know, studio. Yeah. And I think part of it, you know,
26:2726 minutes, 27 secondsand you understand this, but I think a lot of people don’t, is that it’s not about moving around,
26:3426 minutes, 34 secondsyou It’s like, okay, that’s great for the movies, right? When a helicopter flies overhead or something, but you know, it’s not about like taking a
26:4226 minutes, 42 secondsguitar solo and making it swim around in a circle. It’s about getting depth. It’s about getting height. It’s about getting
26:4926 minutes, 49 secondsspace, you know, especially because, you know, look, we if we if we came up with stereo, right, you could move stuff left to right, you could move it back and
26:5726 minutes, 57 secondsforth, you know, with reverbs and stuff like that, but that was pretty much all you could do. Yeah. And if you got a really dense mix,
27:0527 minutes, 5 secondswhich these days almost every mix is dense and even if it’s not, you know,
27:1027 minutes, 10 secondsit’s like the idea of being able to put it up there or over here, whatever, you know. Exactly. It’s just it it’s a different art form in a way, right?
27:1827 minutes, 18 secondsYeah. 100%. I mean, the the name immersive audio, it’s it’s perfect.
27:2227 minutes, 22 secondsyou’re immersing the listener in in the audio and uh like I said earlier, it’s like producing because you’re actually
27:3027 minutes, 30 secondssculpting and getting to do some really cool things because you have this entire room to work with. So, um, it’s definitely my favorite part.
27:3827 minutes, 38 secondsAnd I feel like Atmos kind of got a bad rep too there for a minute or might still, but there’s so many shitty mixes
27:4827 minutes, 48 secondsonline. So, people go and listen and they’re like, you said just spinning stuff around and doing this weird stuff where
27:5527 minutes, 55 secondsyou listen to a good Atmos mix, you’re just like, “Wow, that’s incredible.” Um,
28:0128 minutes, 1 secondand there’s probably more bad mixes online than there is good right now. So, I think that’s something that, you know,
28:0928 minutes, 9 secondsus engineers are are are are fighting with like, “No, no, we promise this is actually sounds really cool and, you know, this this is the future,
28:1728 minutes, 17 secondsbut, you know, some artists just listen to bad mix and they’re like, nope, done.
28:2228 minutes, 22 secondsNot dealing with that.” Well, and you know, it’s funny because I have several friends who um who work for the labels and they remix a lot of older stuff, you
28:3028 minutes, 30 secondsknow, and I mean like I think there was a legendary uh story about like somebody somebody did some remixes of old Marvin
28:3828 minutes, 38 secondsGay stuff and it just came out horrendously bad,
28:4128 minutes, 41 secondsright? And everybody was like, “Don’t with my old stuff,” you know, and things like that, you know? And it’s like, “Okay, I get that, right?” Yeah.
28:4728 minutes, 47 secondsBut I also I mean I have a couple of friends who do some really really amazing remix work, you know,
28:5428 minutes, 54 secondsin Atmos and it’s just it it’s stunning.
28:5828 minutes, 58 secondsAnd one of the things that they told me that I thought was really fascinating was they said, you know, don’t ever play
29:0629 minutes, 6 secondslike if you’re doing a remix for an artist, don’t play them their stuff that you remixed first. first sit them down
29:1429 minutes, 14 secondsand play them like, you know, Rocket Man or something like that, right? To get them used to the concept because otherwise it’s, you know, the first thing they’re going to do is go,
29:2329 minutes, 23 seconds”What have you done to my children?” Yep. Right. Exactly.
29:2629 minutes, 26 secondsUm definitely easing them into what are some of your favorite artists and tracks and let’s listen to those first so you
29:3429 minutes, 34 secondscan understand what this room is doing and because they’ve heard those songs,
29:3829 minutes, 38 secondsyou know, millions of times and so then they’ll be like, “Oh, wow. That’s cool cuz they don’t have that attachment to them, but they but they love them,
29:4829 minutes, 48 secondsright?
29:4829 minutes, 48 secondsThey don’t have that personal attachment of this is mine. I made this and I don’t want you to do anything with it because I understand that 100%.
29:5629 minutes, 56 secondsSo, yeah, that’s exactly what we do is come listen to this, you know, listen to a few tracks, get to know the room. All
30:0330 minutes, 3 secondsright, now let’s listen now. See what I did. And then they’re just like, wow,
30:0730 minutes, 7 secondsthat is so cool. you know, and uh it’s nine times out of 10 positive feedback that, you know, they’re giving instead of just like what you just said,
30:1630 minutes, 16 secondswhat did you do? Yeah.
30:1830 minutes, 18 secondsI mean, you know, the first time I heard that Rocket Man, you know, which uh I think the first time I heard it was at Blackbird in their immersive room. Okay.
30:2630 minutes, 26 secondsYou know, I mean, I was practically in tears, man. And you know, it’s like I grew up with that tune, you know. I mean, everybody knows that. And if you hear that, you go, “Okay, that is a
30:3430 minutes, 34 secondsreally good mix, right?” Uh, and I’ve heard some really really great I’ve heard some shady mixes too, you know.
30:4030 minutes, 40 secondsYeah. But the idea of like, okay, really understanding like this is it’s kind of like just another another
30:4930 minutes, 49 secondsdimension, another thing that you can do with it doesn’t mean that everything has to be in those mixes, you know. Exactly.
30:5530 minutes, 55 secondsI I don’t know that, you know, for example, like would you remix the, you know, the Beatles tracks from Abbey Road?
31:0231 minutes, 2 secondsMhm. Maybe, but probably not, you know,
31:0531 minutes, 5 secondsbecause look, that was recorded in mono on four tracks, you know? It’s like,
31:1031 minutes, 10 secondsokay, what can you do with that, you know? And but at the same time, you know,
31:1531 minutes, 15 secondsI’ve heard like um um I’ve heard some of the Windom Hill stuff, right? Like this newagy stuff remixed in immersive.
31:2431 minutes, 24 secondsI was like, damn, that’s really good,
31:2731 minutes, 27 secondsyou know? And all it is maybe is a solo piano. Yeah. you know, but there’s something about the way they place the reverbs and everything where it’s like,
31:3631 minutes, 36 secondsoh yeah, you know, I can still hear just that solo piano, but I can hear overtones that maybe I didn’t hear before. Exactly.
31:4431 minutes, 44 secondsAnd something about that, man, is just really so cool.
31:4731 minutes, 47 secondsYeah, that that stuff fascinates me. And I I just geek out on this stuff all the time. So, I’m I’m glad you said that
31:5431 minutes, 54 secondsbecause something so simple, but doing the proper reverb with those overtones and all that and understanding how to
32:0332 minutes, 3 secondsplace those in the room in the correct way um is is an art in itself. So, it is it is and I think, you know,
32:1032 minutes, 10 secondsespecially in if you’re sitting in here all day,
32:1432 minutes, 14 secondsyou know, it’s like do you have that perspective? That’s a real challenge, man. I’m sure you know.
32:2032 minutes, 20 secondsYeah. Uh, it took me years to to train my ears. I would always hear, you know,
32:2532 minutes, 25 secondsengineers talk about that. And it’s honestly, it’s like going to the gym every single day. And I got to the point
32:3332 minutes, 33 secondswhere I could hear stuff that maybe, you know, only a few engineers or, you know,
32:3932 minutes, 39 secondsa couple hundred engineers in the world are going to hear, but those aren’t the artist fans. Like, cool, you heard that click that like,
32:4632 minutes, 46 secondsyou know, or pop or, you know, whatever.
32:4932 minutes, 49 secondsJust some weird sound in there. and I’m showing the artist and he’s just like,
32:5232 minutes, 52 seconds”I don’t care. No one’s ever going to hear that.” He’s like, “I don’t even hear it.” Like, you know, my fans aren’t going to hear that. And like I kind of had to like dial it back of just like,
33:0133 minutes, 1 second”Okay, just because you can doesn’t mean that, you know, you need to dive in that deep.” Um, so yeah,
33:0733 minutes, 7 secondsthat definitely kind of was a wakeup call of just like,
33:1133 minutes, 11 secondsall right, you got your ears to a point where you can, you know, really dive into a mix. Um, but you don’t need to go that indepth like Well, well, you know, and to your point,
33:2133 minutes, 21 secondsit’s really funny that you say that because I was having this conversation with someone the other day about like,
33:2733 minutes, 27 secondsyou know, when we’re in the studio with an artist,
33:3133 minutes, 31 secondswe’re the only people that are going to hear it that way, you know, and when it gets out of here,
33:3833 minutes, 38 secondsyou know, even if somebody’s listening to it on the greatest, you know, home stereo system in the world, Yeah.
33:4533 minutes, 45 secondsThey’re still going to have a different experience cuz the room’s different. You know, their ears are different.
33:5033 minutes, 50 secondsSo, you’re never going to get that experience that we had when it was made. Exactly.
33:5533 minutes, 55 secondsYou know, and and so, you know, you have to kind of prepare yourself for that because ultimately, no matter what we do in these rooms,
34:0334 minutes, 3 secondsin these quote unquote temples of sound that we inhabit,
34:0834 minutes, 8 secondsI like that. you know, when it leaves here, man, when it leaves and goes out into the world, you got no control over how it’s going to be heard.
34:1534 minutes, 15 secondsAnd I’d say 90% of people are listening on their cell phones. And so, like, I can make it sound insane in here, but
34:2434 minutes, 24 secondsthen, you know, make it sound insane on the phone. So, you got to they’re going to throw that phone on the table, you know. Yeah. a good friend of
34:3434 minutes, 34 secondsmine is a brilliant engineer producer uh by the name of Nico Bolas and Nico has done so many wonderful wonderful mixes
34:4234 minutes, 42 secondsand he works in immersive too and he said something to me once that really stuck. He said the only thing that matters is the vegetable aisle at Kroger’s. And I said what? And he said,
34:5334 minutes, 53 seconds”You know, when you’re walking around in the supermarket, right?” Yeah.
34:5734 minutes, 57 secondsAnd you hear like, you know, especially like, you know, some of those old mixes where like, you know,
35:0235 minutes, 2 secondssome shit’s on one channel, some shit’s on the other, and you don’t hear both of them together, you know, like the drums are panned here, whatever, you know. Y,
35:0935 minutes, 9 secondsif you can hear that in that vegetable aisle and it still sounds great, like a great song. Yep. Then you’ve done it, you know.
35:1735 minutes, 17 secondsExactly. One of my uh mentors uh Bass Cliff actually literally said the exact same thing.
35:2435 minutes, 24 secondsHe’s like, “You can make this insane mix, but is it gonna fold down to mono?
35:2935 minutes, 29 secondsCuz guess what? You’re walking through the grocery store,
35:3235 minutes, 32 secondsthose speakers above you are mono and they don’t lie.” No. Yeah.
35:3635 minutes, 36 secondsAnd like he said exactly that. So that’s something that always stuck with me is can my mix fold down to mono properly
35:4435 minutes, 44 secondsand you know sound good on a phone? just any speakers. But, you know,
35:4935 minutes, 49 secondsyeah, I mean, I remember I used to, you know, because of course we always listen on multiple speakers when we can, you know, we used to have like Aura Tones and NS10s in the studio and everything.
35:5935 minutes, 59 secondsAnd uh I I did a few mixes at um the old&m studios. It’s now um I guess it used to be Henson. I don’t know what
36:0636 minutes, 6 secondsit’s called now that uh Okay. now that they it’s got new owners again,
36:1036 minutes, 10 secondsright? Yeah. But um they had at one point when I was working there um a low range FM transmitter so that you could
36:1936 minutes, 19 secondsgo out in the parking lot and listen to your mix in your car.
36:2236 minutes, 22 secondsYeah. How cool. You know, it’s like so you know you you know that you’re going to hear it in all these different places. I used to walk out in the hall
36:3036 minutes, 30 secondsin my studio, you know, just play put the mix up and walk out there because again what you want to get away from is the power of the speakers. Exactly. Man,
36:4036 minutes, 40 secondswhen that shit’s blowing at you, you know,
36:4236 minutes, 42 secondsyou’re experiencing that as much as you’re experiencing the sound. Oh, yeah.
36:4636 minutes, 46 secondsYou know, you’re experiencing that power. Yep.
36:4936 minutes, 49 secondsAnd you got to get away from that. And because you’re not going to hear it on the phone. Yeah.
36:5336 minutes, 53 secondsYou know, you’re going to you’re going to hear just, you know, the tiny little whatever it is, you know.
36:5936 minutes, 59 secondsExactly. You’re not going to hear it in a perfectly tuned studio on, you know,
37:0337 minutes, 3 secondsamazing speakers and all that. So, this is the ideal environment. But, you know,
37:0937 minutes, 9 secondsnone of the listeners are going to be in this environment. So, that’s definitely something that once I started doing this professionally is something that like I
37:1737 minutes, 17 secondsstarted focusing on. You know, make it sound good on everything. not yeah it’s going to sound amazing in here but you know does it sound good on your phone or
37:2537 minutes, 25 secondsa lot of times I’ll do you know obviously car and all the different things I’ll listen on but you know I’ll throw it on the background and if
37:3337 minutes, 33 secondsnothing pops up that my attention is like what was that you know it’s kind of like my final okay I’m
37:4037 minutes, 40 secondshappy with this like can I drive and this be in the background and you know me taking in sounds good but that’s not my focus I’m focusing on driving I
37:4937 minutes, 49 secondsdon’t have it up super loud And you know that’s basically my final test of it does anything pop out that I’m just
37:5737 minutes, 57 secondslike whoa what was that I need to fix that you know and you know it’s um
38:0538 minutes, 5 secondsmy mixing and mastering mentor is uh someone who said that to Luca Pillesie in Vegas him and Rob amazing humans super talented I don’t
38:1438 minutes, 14 secondseven know how many Grammys they have now but um you know two those are my two mentors is that I had uh bass cleft for
38:2238 minutes, 22 secondsproduction and uh Luca and Rob for mixing and mastering. So um very thankful that you know I got to
38:3138 minutes, 31 secondswork with with all of them cuz they’re they’re all just super professional and and just have always gave me these little oneliners that kind of stick in
38:3938 minutes, 39 secondsmy head that have helped me along the way. So yeah. Yeah. Words to live by, man. Yeah.
38:4438 minutes, 44 secondsWell, I’ll I’ll I’ll wrap with your chance to do the same thing. I’ll ask you what I ask a lot of people when I
38:5138 minutes, 51 secondswhen I conclude these. So you came up in kind of an era that was like sort of in
38:5838 minutes, 58 secondsflux in transition, right? Moving to immersive, moving to going all digital, all that stuff.
39:0439 minutes, 4 secondsWhat do you tell 15year-old you who’s coming up now? Trust the process.
39:1039 minutes, 10 secondsUm, and trust your gut cuz that like has always my intuition has always led me in the right direction and who to work with
39:1939 minutes, 19 secondsand you know someone might seem like they’re just the ideal candidate but something inside me is like you know stay away from them and sure enough you
39:2839 minutes, 28 secondsknow year or two down the road I’m just like I’m glad I didn’t work with that person or you know something would happen. So that that’s, you know,
39:3739 minutes, 37 secondssomething that I’ve always leaned on is, you know, my intuition and trust my gut. Yeah. Yeah.
39:4339 minutes, 43 secondsYeah. That’s good. Especially trust in the process because, man,
39:4739 minutes, 47 secondsthe process is something that’s out of our control. Mhm.
39:5039 minutes, 50 secondsYou know, so yeah, I I can’t tell you how many um people that I’ve mentored over the
39:5739 minutes, 57 secondsyears and they just always get in their own way because they want it now and they want to be famous and like all this stuff. And I’m just like, h you got to
40:0640 minutes, 6 secondsyou got to get your music to a certain point. You know, it’s a process, but they’re just like, I want to be famous.
40:1140 minutes, 11 secondsAnd you’re just like, okay, this isn’t for you. Like, you think it is. You want to go on stage and you want the pyro and the confetti and, you know, all those
40:1940 minutes, 19 secondspeople watching you, but that’s not going to happen. You need to produce music. You need to have a product that these people want want, you know, want
40:2840 minutes, 28 secondsto come see, come to your shows, all that. So trusting the process and it’s not fun. You got to grind it out, you know, many, many years of grinding it
40:3740 minutes, 37 secondsout and um but believing in yourself. I think that’s something so many top artists can say is they
40:4540 minutes, 45 secondsdidn’t give up. That’s the only difference. They’re like, “This guy was better than me, but he gave up. I just didn’t give up, you know, and Yeah. Yeah.
40:5340 minutes, 53 secondsThose of us who don’t give up are still here.” Exactly. Yeah. Awesome. Exactly.
40:5840 minutes, 58 secondsTaylor Jamon, thank you for being my guest. Yeah. Thank you. Pleasure, man. Thanks for coming down. I appreciate it. Yeah.
41:0641 minutes, 6 secondsHey, I’m Daniel Keller. Don’t forget to hit the subscribe button and join us each week for Insights and Sound.