Insights In Sound 185 – Josh Rogosin, Audio Engineer / Documentarian – S19 E5

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Welcome to Insights and Sound, where we
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I’m here with Josh Rogeson. is the
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creator of Global Sound Concerts. Um I
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guess you’re best known for Tiny Desk
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stuff. That’s right. But um
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let’s back up even further than that a
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little bit
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because we were just talking earlier.
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Your audio background um even though
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you’re best known for recording music,
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your audio background was really more
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locationbased stuff, I guess, right? Or
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journalistic. Um
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that’s right. The first 15 years of my
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career, I actually spent recording and
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telling stories, sort of documentary
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style, ENG recording, learning about
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different stereo sound gathering
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techniques to tell stories on the radio.
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So, uh, you know, shooting with MS
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stereo, uh, OTF,
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spaced omnis, binaural, and basically
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figuring out all these different ways to
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capture sound in all kinds of wild
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environments.
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And eventually uh I translated that into
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how I capture music with these same sort
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of stereo sound gathering techniques.
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Not necessarily close micing everything,
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but letting sort of the recording
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breathe a bit more. Also capturing
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musicians and artists in natural
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environments without retakes and
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overdubs. So it’s a much different
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experience than being in the studio
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recording with me is which which is why
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I think it offers the audience a much
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different way to enjoy you know their
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favorite band or musician to experience
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it in a truly organic stripped down like
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not using any sort of monitors or PA.
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It’s like all right how do we sound good
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to each other acoustically in a room?
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even if you’ve got an electric guitar,
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it might be just going through an amp
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that’s turned at the appropriate level
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to balance naturally with the singer
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that might be in the room or asking the
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drummer to play super quietly and more
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dynamically than they might be used to.
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And it really offers an opportunity for
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the musicians to approach their music
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and really to listen to each other in a
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way that they may never have before. you
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know, with all the nicities of
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in your monitors and separate mixes for
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everybody or wedge monitors and overdub.
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So,
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it’s it’s a much different way of of uh
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of approaching, you know, capturing
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music. I’m much more interested in
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capturing a moment in time. It’s organic
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and and and in a certain sense it’s got
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a lot more in common with old school,
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you know, and and that’s what I really
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love about it, you know, because to my
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mind, as we progressed,
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uh, technologically speaking, as we
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progressed to overdubs, there was less
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and less spontane spontaneity, and there
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was less and less of the artist really
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like all of them bringing their agame,
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you know.
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That’s right. I mean, there’s no place
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to hide. You have to be a good musician.
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And I’m not usually using any sort of
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autotune or anything like that other
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than just like
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balancing the levels and making as good
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of a recording as I possibly can.
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The rest is really up to the musicians
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to kind of bring their agame. So, um,
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yeah, it’s there’s not a lot of crutches
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that you can rely on with the types of
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recordings that I’m making. Uh, and I’m
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not really interested in replacing all
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these wonderful studio recordings that
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are happening that are incredible. I’m
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just I’m more interested in
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supplementing what’s already out there
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with a different approach that’s could
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possibly be really refreshing for the
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audience.
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So, what are you looking for when you
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when you find an artist? I mean,
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obviously you’re looking for artists
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that are self-contained in that sense,
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right? That can pull it off live.
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That’s right. So, I’ve been holding
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contests online on Instagram. Like, I
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traveled to Chile and I had this
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Instagram hashtag global soundch.
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I’ve seen a couple of them.
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And yeah, and I had a collaborator who h
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reached a really big audience of
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musicians and studio engineer nerdy type
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folks. And the post went totally viral.
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I thought we’d get Yeah, maybe we’ll get
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10 20 submissions and we’ll see how it
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goes. We ended up getting over a
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thousand.
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Wow. just like one minute clips on
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Instagram and I was able to go through
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many of them and a lot of people from
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other countries were like, “Hey, when
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are you coming to Colombia? When are you
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coming to Argentina?” you know. Um, and
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it kind of opened my eyes to like the
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possibility of just like
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discovering musicians that might not
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otherwise be discovered and recording
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them in their natural environment where
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they grew up at a place that is
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significantly meaningful to them and
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their music to help try and tell a
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little bit of a deeper story rather than
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just like, hey, here’s this great band
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playing some cool music in a cool
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location, but actually capt structuring
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them where they’re from.
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And there’s so much talent out there
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that really is overlooked, you know,
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outside of the the music cities, quote
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unquote.
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It’s an embarrassment of riches. I mean,
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everywhere I I’ve gone, there’s always
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good music, you know, because it’s just
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so
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what binds us together.
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That’s right. So,
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um,
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yeah, I’m I love recording super
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talented, famous people, of course, but
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I’m just as happy, you know, recording a
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really passionate, excellent band from,
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you know, Guadalajara, Mexico, where
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I’ve been, or
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or even Brisbane, Australia, where I’ve
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been, or um Mexico City, where I
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recorded some really interesting folks.
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That’s right. You did the um the thing
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with John Civet, the um the music expo
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down there, right?
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Yeah. Yeah. With John Civet, we we did
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the Pan-American
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audio educators conference.
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And um while I was down there, we went
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to Techa Mter where I’ve given some
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workshops as well. There’s such a great
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university
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and um I was able to
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give a workshop and then run off and
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record a musician that I found called
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Andre Belran. We met at this incredible
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park called Park Quasicult.
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You saw him playing at the park or what?
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No, I I was like asking friends in Baja
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where my parents live. Hey, you know, do
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you know of any place in Mexico City
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that’s sort of like iconic, but not
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everybody necessarily knows about it
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that could sort of tell the story of
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Mexico City? And they mentioned this
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park and I looked it up and it was, you
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know, by appointment only. I was like, I
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don’t know how we’re going to get
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permission to record there. And someone
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recommended I record this musician
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called El Andre Beltran
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and his his friend Elm Mulu. And as luck
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would have it when I mentioned Parker
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Quatic to him, he said, “I have a
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friend. I think she’s a photographer for
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them.” So everything kind of came to
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fruition. We got the permission. We
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recorded in this stunning location and
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that was like the first Global Sound
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concert that came out.
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Yeah, that’s cool. And I mean I
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obviously you you are wellversed in this
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whole idea of when you’re recording live
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like that. Um you know I was always
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fascinated like um I remember seeing the
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old Mottown studios and I mean it’s a
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really really tiny room and to think you
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know they had 12 14 18 people in there.
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Somebody wants to be louder they step
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forward you know and that is really I
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mean
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that’s the way music used to be played.
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Yeah, it’s kind of like a it’s a it’s
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definitely a flashback to hey, what does
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it sound like if we just put up one
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ribbon mic and everyone sings around it
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and gets different distances from the
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mic. And my predecessor Kevin Wait a
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Tiny Desk, you know, he had the one
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stereo I’m a shotgun mic and he would
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place the band WCO. Okay, can you come a
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little bit closer? You got to let’s get
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the drums off to the side. All right,
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when you’re doing your singing, you
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really got to step up into the mic. So
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you really have to work more proactively
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with the musicians to get the balance
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right because you’re really relying on
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that natural recording. And then of
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course as the years went on I added a
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bunch of channels and supplemented
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but the overall sound and concept is
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still of not close ming it having like
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an overall stereo image and then
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supplementing that stereo recording with
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individual lines to make certain musical
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things kind of pop out where you want
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them to.
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Uhhuh. Yeah. There’s a um there’s a
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producer I know in the Bay Area um John
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Kunertie and he does these things called
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one mic recordings and he takes an Aea
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stereo ribbon mic.
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Yes.
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And puts them around it. So you
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essentially have four channels.
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Yeah.
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You know, left, right, front, back.
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Yeah.
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And he’ll do the same thing. And
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again, I just I love that concept
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because you really get this organic
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performance.
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I love it, too. And the musicians really
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have to pay attention to how they sound
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in relation to each other in a way that
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you don’t necessarily have to when
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you’re just like
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in an ISO booth.
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Mhm. Yeah. And I think that’s really um
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I think that speaks to really something
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that we were talking about earlier
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that’s almost endemic to this day and
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age where people are so in their screens
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that they don’t have this degree of
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human contact that we used to have. And
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I think the idea of getting musicians,
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encouraging musicians to work together
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that way is it’s not just of value to
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the music, it’s of value to humanity.
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It’s fun for the musicians, too.
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Sure. Of course. you know, Post Malone
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comes into the tiny desk with his big
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pretty big band like
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um and uh you know, they had to sort of
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like
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figure out how to do it without monitors
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and maybe they rehearsed in their hotel
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room or whatever, but
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I think they had such a sense of joy
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coming and trying something different
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and new after being on tour for however
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many months and having all that tech,
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you know, with you every night to make
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your job possible. Just to like kind of
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toss it all aside, cram into the corner.
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Yeah.
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Cram into a corner of an office and get
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back down to just like the bare
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necessity and and see if they could pull
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it off
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and and they did with, you know, they
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offered also something for their fans,
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a different
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a different style of recording that they
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can enjoy.
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Uhhuh. Cool. So, tell me about what
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you’re doing here in New York now.
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Uh, I just started at the New York
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Public Library where I’m figuring out
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how to run events and um the programming
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for their incredible free to use with a
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library card after some training. Studio
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40. And at Studio 40, they have, you
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know, incredible classes that you can
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take in in Logic and in ProTools and in
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studio usage and um it’s all for free as
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long as you’re willing to put in the
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time, you know, to get trained and to
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figure it out. And I’m hoping to bring
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and supplement the studio recording and
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post-production uh with some field sound
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recording classes.
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Um and hopefully, you know, create a
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series uh for patrons
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um where we can like record them in
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unique locations that isn’t necessarily
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the recording studio,
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right?
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And and maybe build a little video
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series for the library.
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So, are you thinking about maybe doing
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events like in New York? I mean, I know
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New York’s a hell of a noisy
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environment, but um
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yeah, you know, there’s 92 branches of
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the New York Public Library. Um and
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that’s just Manhattan, Staten Island,
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and the Bronx because Queens has their
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own library system
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and Brooklyn has their own library
12:11
system. But I think there’s
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possibilities for collaboration. So, you
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know, maybe it’s a matter of finding
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patrons who are musicians out in these,
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you know,
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locations that aren’t necessarily
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Midtown Manhattan. Um, and and to really
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feature all these incredible buildings.
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Uh, I did uh a concert for Global Sound
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Concerts in Astra Hall, you know, behind
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the Lions, Patience, and Fortitude on
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Fifth Avenue. You walk into this
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incredible hall with marble everywhere.
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And uh I had a a good friend I’d
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recorded before, Lil Cruda, and her six
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piece string ensemble play some original
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music, which just sounded so cavernous
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in there. And
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Oh, yeah.
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set up the ambisonic mic from Soyos. And
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and um working with uh someone at
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Marshmallow Sounds, Klaus Trellby. Sure.
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uh to to do some immersive mixing for
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hopefully we’ll eventually end up on
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YouTube with this new Eclipa format. So
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So you’re not really using traditional
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audio equipment. You’re using mostly
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location kind of stuff and
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That’s right.
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Uhhuh.
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Mostly like sound devices or Zoom,
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you know, audio recorders, field
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recorders,
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just doing multi- channelannel.
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Yep. Multi- channelannel. just tracking
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things clean
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and then transferring them into ProTools
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is my
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my DAW of choice just because that’s
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what I learned on and putting on some
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nice uh plugins and not overcompressing
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and making it sound really tasteful and
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using my ear to make it sound as sort of
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hyper realistic as possible.
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I mean, New York is the place to find
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just a wealth of different kinds of
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music, too, I would think. Huh.
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We’ll see. I would imagine. Yeah.
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I’m guessing you’re going to find a lot
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of different stuff here. A lot of really
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interesting stuff because it’s so it’s
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so diverse.
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That’s right. This is this is a city I
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grew up in and I I mean I know it’s
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there just so many people from all over
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the world here
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and a lot of young people who are coming
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through the library and Studio 40 and
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I’m wondering yeah what kind of talent’s
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going to walk through the door. You
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never know.
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Uh-huh. Interesting. Man, you really I
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mean this seems like a really
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interesting gig for you, you know.
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Yeah.
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Basically, you know, with with all of
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the past stuff you’ve done. So, out of
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everything that you’ve done, I mean,
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obviously, this is almost like a
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culmination of all that stuff.
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That’s right. It’s like time to pay it
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forward, so to speak. I feel like I’ve
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had incredible luck in my 25 year career
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as a audio journalist and then doing
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Tiny Desk for almost 10 years.
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Um, and now it’s kind of time to to
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create my own magic. And that’s what
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I’ve been doing with Global Sound
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Concerts, which has been an absolute
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thrill
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to travel and to do that. And then to
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bring some of that energy and excitement
15:12
to the library is going to be really
15:14
interesting.
15:15
Well, you know what I like also is that
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um you have a philosophy that I always
15:21
really value, which is just say yes,
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you know, like I have I may not know
15:27
what I’m doing, but just jump in, right?
15:29
And just, you know, and that’s
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that’s what’s led you to doing all the
15:33
things you’ve been doing, obviously, you
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know.
15:35
Yeah. So,
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what do you tell younger people coming
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into it now?
15:44
What do you tell 15year-old you now?
15:46
Oh, wow. You just say yes to everything.
15:48
I mean, that’s what it’s kind of cliche,
15:50
but you know, if an opportunity presents
15:52
itself, I remember, you know, recording
15:55
congressional hearings on cassette tape
15:58
for transcription purposes. Whoa. and I
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said yes, even though my recordings were
16:03
probably just going to one person
16:05
typing. Uh, but I was like, “Hey, I’m
16:07
still using an XLR cable. I’m plugging
16:10
it into a malt box and I’m making a
16:12
recording and writing the first word of
16:15
whomever’s speaking for the
16:16
transcriber.” And
16:19
um, you know, I’m sure I learned
16:22
something in that little task. Patience,
16:25
anything, you know,
16:27
patience and fortitude.
16:28
Yeah. and fortitude that that led me to
16:30
be able to do you know that helped
16:32
inform other opportunities. So, um, even
16:38
if you, you know, like I loved growing
16:41
up making and recording my own music for
16:44
fun. And when I became an audio
16:46
engineer,
16:48
I said yes to running the soundboard for
16:51
news radio or for live theater for
16:54
Shakespeare in Washington DC at the
16:56
Shakespeare Theater, which was like my
16:58
first full-time real grownup gig. Even
17:03
though it wasn’t in a recording studio
17:05
recording musicians, there was still so
17:09
much that informed my future self by
17:12
taking the gig
17:14
in theater.
17:15
It taught me how to hide microphones
17:18
in
17:19
Yeah.
17:19
baseball caps or in hairlines
17:22
so that actors always stay on mic. And I
17:25
borrowed that when I was doing audio
17:28
journalism. And I would bring baseball
17:30
caps and attach mics to the end of the
17:33
caps
17:34
so that when we’re climbing over ancient
17:37
ruins in Greece leading up to the 2004
17:41
Olympics, I have the archaeologist
17:44
always on mic.
17:45
Uhhuh.
17:46
Because of a technique that I learned in
17:47
the theater. And then of course all of
17:50
the stereo sound gathering techniques I
17:52
learned doing radio expeditions with
17:54
National Geographic and NPR I then
17:58
applied to capturing music and that led
18:02
to the sound design that I helped
18:04
develop after my friend Kevin White had
18:06
the MS stereo mic and I started
18:08
supplementing that. Um, it helped me
18:12
create and inform what I ended up doing
18:15
for Tiny Desk, which then helped me
18:17
inform what I wanted to do with Global
18:19
Sound Concerts, which is kind of taking
18:22
the same concept of how I record things
18:25
beyond the desk.
18:26
Mhm. One thing always leads to another
18:29
basically.
18:29
Yeah. Exactly.
18:31
So, say yes to everything. That’s
18:33
basically
18:34
the advice that I would have. And even
18:36
though you don’t think it’s your dream
18:37
gig, it it might turn into something.
18:40
Yeah, exactly. Awesome. Dr. Robson,
18:43
thanks for being my guest.
18:44
Thanks, Daniel. Appreciate being here.
18:46
Thanks for asking me.
18:51
Hey, I’m Daniel Keller. Don’t forget to
18:52
hit the subscribe button and join us
18:54
each week for Insights and Sound.