Insights In Sound 181 – Jan Landy, Sound Broker S19 E1

Welcome to Insights and Sound, where we talk to the people behind the scenes, behind the technology, and behind the
0:06
music. People you may not know, but you should. And please check out
0:11
insightsandsound.com for a full list of our podcasts and YouTube series. And big
0:16
thanks to our sponsors, Mackie, Roland, Mojave Audio, Obot.
0:24
I’m here with Jan Landy. I guess you’re best known for Soundbroker,
0:29
founder and president and CEO of soundbroker.com. That’s a hell of a lot of titles.
0:35
Well, yeah, because I founded it. I am not, you know, I’m not sure where I want to be in the company hierarchy. Right
0:41
now, I’m just the only person working for it. Although company seems bigger than the sun because it’s the website,
0:47
you know, that’s what it is. And that’s u I I’ve run a company like that for many years, too. We were at one point 14
0:53
people and then you know I’ve scaled it up and down and back and forth but uh
0:59
you know these days you can be a company as long as you’re actually doing business right. Yeah. Well what I found is this when I
1:05
had lots of people working for me we were grossing a lot of money but we weren’t netting a lot of money. And what
1:11
I realized that it’s not as important as how much you’re making. It’s how much of the what
1:17
you make that you keep. That’s right. That’s right. Exactly. And now I’m keeping uh you know the lion
1:24
share and I’m much more happy. You know of course I’m I would you know a lot of people think I’m retired. I don’t feel
1:30
that way. I feel like I’m semi-retired. Still working you know 5 6 7 8 9 10
1:35
hours a day. But it doesn’t feel that way. It just well and and you know if you’re like me
1:40
you’ll probably never retire because you know when you retire I mean what’s there left to do you know. Ex
1:46
well that’s exactly correct. You know, I’m not doing it because I have to do it
1:51
now. I’m doing it because I love what I do. Yep. Well, first of all, before we get even get into soundbroker,
1:57
okay, you’ve had a bit of a pinball career even before that. You’ve been in the industry for a long
2:02
time. You’ve done ANR, you’ve done um lots of different stuff, right?
2:07
Yes. Yeah. I I I remember, you know, I was watching one of your shows and you
2:13
asked someone, “What what concert did you see that made you decide that you
2:19
wanted to be in the business?” Okay. And I have an answer for that. It’s Watkins Glenn up in upstate New York.
2:27
I had missed Woodstock. And the reason I had missed Woodstock at that point in time in 1969,
2:35
I was in the National Guard. I was in the New York State National Guard and they were expected to be called out for
2:42
Woodstock and so I was on call so I couldn’t go even though really
2:48
never you know I was I was a little too young for Woodstock. Well, there’s so many good stories
2:54
but I didn’t make it. I mean, I heard so many stories. It It’s an interesting thing that I know
2:59
two people that went and they went together and yet their stories about
3:06
their experiences are completely different. As a matter of fact, they don’t even remember being with each other.
3:12
Oh, that could have been the drugs. It probably was the drugs. It was probably was the drugs. So, I decided
3:18
that when I had the opportunity to go to Watkins, Glenn, the Grateful Dead, the Almond Brothers, um I was I was
3:24
definitely and the New Riders of the Purple Sage, if I remember correctly, uh I was going to go and I was one of a
3:30
zillion people in the back. Mhm. And it’s strange thing happened because while I was in the National Guard, I was
3:37
trained to be a medic. And I am here enjoying the concert and the guy next to
3:43
me starts to OD. Oh crap. right in front of my eyes. But of course, I just I’m
3:48
I’m still in the active duty, you know, I’m, you know, National Guard. And I just sprung into action and and I got
3:56
the police to come over and we and they said I said, “We got to we got to get this guy out of here. We got to get him to a hospital.” And then on a
4:02
walkie-talkie. Next thing I know, a helicopter lands. And in those days, I guess there was no paramedics. So they
4:08
said, “You go with him in the helicopter.” And they took me in the helicopter and then they took me
4:14
backstage and Bill Graham came up to me afterwards. He says, “Thank you so much
4:19
for saving this guy’s life. I want you to be in charge of all the backstage
4:24
medicine here at Watkins Glenn.” Wow. And I got a chance to sit on the stage
4:31
while the Grateful Dead were playing. I sat like under the organ. I I I don’t know how high I was at the time, but
4:37
believe me, that’s how I remember that story. and I’m going to stick to it. Uhhuh. But I’ll tell you one thing that really
4:43
stood out in my mind and that was the whole backstage area and what was going on and how everybody was just there on
4:51
their own. But the people backstage, it was their own village. They had a kitchen, they had food, they had
4:57
electricity, they had everything. And it was hot. I remember it being hot. And
5:04
Bill Graham had a hose. Now where he had a hose from, I have no idea. in the middle of a field, but he had a hose and
5:10
the people were hot and Bill Graeme took the hose and started spraying the people with water to cool them down. And I’ll
5:17
never forget that and that moment. And many years later, many years later, um I
5:23
was with Chris Isaac at Filmore Filmore West and I was talking to Bill Graham
5:29
about that. He had no it, not one recollection. That’s funny. I mean, I I met Bill a
5:35
couple of times as well in San Francisco. Um, and he was that kind of personality, you know, where he would
5:42
just like kind of just make split-second decisions and do something impromptu like that, you know, and it was I mean,
5:49
I think in a certain in a certain sense, the guy was he was all business, but he
5:55
was he definitely fit into the whole culture of the time so well.
6:00
Yeah. There’s a word to describe him. It’s called the mench. mench. He was a true mench in the word. Although later
6:06
in my career, we definitely got into some disputes and that was because he believed in a
6:12
different thing that I believed in with as far as live concerts. But it turns out that maybe he wasn’t right and maybe
6:20
what I was doing at the time, but we’ll get to that in a minute. And it was called World Stage.
6:26
It was it was it was a highlight of my life. But after that, WAF after Watkins
6:31
Glenn and I got out of the military, I immediately shot to uh to um California
6:37
and I ended up in Santa Barbara. Okay. I ended up to end up
6:43
and I was working now as volunteering as a medic in the free clinic
6:51
and this guy comes in and we diagnosed him with gorrhea.
6:57
Okay, that was pretty common back then, too.
7:04
And um you know, I treated him. I gave him the needle. I gave him the shot, you know. And uh he says to me, “Hey, I’m
7:10
the lead singer in a band and we’re playing tomorrow in the park right next
7:16
to the free clinic. It’s called Perfect Park.” If you’ve ever been to Isa Vista in Santa Barbara, I know it will. And I went to the show
7:24
and he introduced me to everybody. And one of the guys that was at the show was
7:31
the guy that owned the sound company. His name was Jeff Cook. And Jeff Cook and I ended up becoming very, very good
7:38
friends even to this day. He’s still a good friend, although I haven’t spoken to him in in a few years. But Jeff
7:44
started a company called Soundstorm Systems. and Soundstorm Systems. Jeff was the kind of guy that could see
7:51
electrons like you or I could see water. You know, one of he was the one who got
7:56
me into the Grateful Dead going to going to the concerts on at Filillmore Filillmore West on New Year’s Eve. Um,
8:03
but that’s another because he was really into the sound of the Grateful Dead and he was the one who came up with the wall
8:09
of sound for them. Oh, okay. So he was the one he was the one that came up with the 4-in neodymium
8:16
drivers and that he built a whole wall of sounds. So that’s Jeff Cook. But so
8:22
we went to see the concert and Jeff and I are talking. He says, “What are you doing tomorrow?” And I said, “Nothing.”
8:29
He says, “Do you have a car?” And I said, “Yeah, I do. I got a Volkswagens quartback.” He says, “Hey,
8:36
could you help us bring some stuff to the Ventura Theater? We’re doing the Doovie Brothers.” the Doobie Brothers. I
8:42
said, “Wow, listen to the music, those guys.” He says, “Yeah.” So I said, “Sure.” You know, because I’m from New
8:48
York, love the Doobie Brothers, you know, they were just, you know, and so we went to the Ventura Theater and when
8:54
we got there, he set up everything or set up the sound system. I’m watching them and he says to me, he comes to me,
9:00
he says, “Hey, the guy that’s going to mix the sound didn’t show up. Do you want to mix the sound?”
9:06
Yikes. I said, “Sure, why not?” Uhhuh. Yeah, I think that’s a great
9:12
idea. I could do it. What do I got to do? And he said, “Well, you just turn these knobs here and this and that and
9:18
I’ll control the power from the from the back.” And you know, big bake light knobs, huh? No faders or
9:24
no knobs, just two knobs, you know, on and off, left and right. I don’t even remember what it was all about, but I
9:29
said, “Sure, I’ll do it.” Well, it turned out only like about 12 people showed up to that concert at the Ventura
9:34
Theater. Oh. And so, but it was my first experience mixing a live band, you know,
9:41
and especially a superstar band. But 12 people had showed up to the Ventura Theater.
9:46
That’s unusual. And the band after the concert, the band was sitting on the stage on a couch and
9:53
they were talking about how this is not what we signed up for. 12 people. This
9:59
is ridicul. We’re doing the wrong thing. We got to break up. And I said to them,
10:04
I was listening. said, “No, you don’t, man. You guys are great. You guys stick together. I I’m telling you, one bad
10:11
show, it’s no big deal. You’ll The next show will be much better. I’m I promise you, you guys are great.” And of course,
10:17
they listen to me. And then, of course, now everybody knows who the doobies are, but they don’t remember me.
10:25
Damn. The unsung hero. Uhhuh. Unsung hero. But this was your first experience
10:30
mixing live sound. That was my first experience mixing live sound. Up to then I’d only been the head
10:36
of the AV squad, the audiovisisual squad at my uh public school
10:41
setting up projectors to see the movie in the class. I was the one I was the one who was a nerd. I was the one who plugged in the the the
10:47
the XLR jack into the wall to play the pledge of allegiance over the school PA
10:54
system. And the only reason I volunteered for that was so I can get out of class.
11:01
But I really got into that and I got into the backstage squad and you know I was that was when I was young and I had
11:08
I had a a technician’s class FCC license by the time I was 12. So
11:13
yeah I I still have a first class FCC license too which you know along with carro gets you across town you know.
11:20
Well it’s great for a password WB2 whack whack whack. I can’t tell you
11:26
the rest, folks. But but it’s but it’s it’s great for it’s great for a password. And
11:32
you know, my first my very first job as a kid, other than of course shoveling
11:38
snow and delivering newspapers, I had a company called uh Silver Dollar
11:43
Electronics. Uhhuh. Where I would go to the neighbors and fix their appliances. Hey, that’s entrepreneurial of you.
11:50
Yeah, it was very Yeah. My my uncle had a company called Handy Andy. Uh-huh. And people, you know, he was a an
11:57
official repair shop. I just did it on, you know, on the side. But today, I couldn’t do that, you know, because
12:02
everything’s digital. Well, yeah. Everything’s different now. But, but that was then, you know, you could pretty much take things apart and fix them. Yeah.
12:08
And you had to, you know, I mean, it was too expensive to buy new stuff in that sense, you know. So, but
12:15
um so, so um how did you go from live sound to I know you’ve done some other
12:21
stuff like you you um you did ANR for a record label at one point, right? Well, that was that what what happened
12:28
was is that when I moved to LA, I wanted to be in a band. I wanted to be in a
12:34
band so bad. And I was fortunate enough that one of my friends who’s no longer
12:40
with us, Michael Gladstone, when I was living in New York, he was my roommate and he had moved out. And one of his
12:46
best friends was Jimmy Fielder of the Grateful Dead. I’m not I’m sorry, Blood, Sweat, and Tears. And and Jimmy had just
12:54
been kicked out of the band and he was pretty depressed. And we were we were all staying up this house on Manx up in
13:01
Laurel Canyon. And I was writing songs and I had a guitar and I was, you know,
13:07
I um and Jimmy said, “Well, look, you want to put a band together?” And I said, “Yeah.” And so he said, “Well, I
13:15
know this guitar player um great.” Um and it turned out to be Bobby Keredine.
13:20
Uhhuh. You know, who’s the actor and John Keredine’s, you know, son and David Keredine, you know, cool stories because
13:27
David used to hang out when he was doing the kung fu stuff. You know, it was a good time. Anyway, our first rehearsal,
13:34
our first rehearsal with Jimmy Fielder and and um and Bobby, I realized that I
13:40
wasn’t good enough to play with them. They were playing my songs better than I could play them. And it really depressed
13:47
me. And I said to myself, I got to stop this right now. I’ve got to I’ve got to
13:52
perfect my skill, but I don’t want to leave the business. I got to do something. What do I know? And I know
13:58
sales. So, hm, I got out a copy of Billboard, Cash, Cashbox, uh, whatever
14:04
the other papers were around Variety, and I started reading for people’s names that were in the music business. Started
14:11
circling them, and uh, I got a job working for a guy
14:17
uh, well, actually, my first job was at Lifeong Records. Um, I Cashman and West
14:23
and my first job that was that was uh, Jim Crochy’s label, but he had passed away. And my first job was regional
14:31
promotion for a for a guy by the name of uh Henry
14:36
Gross. Springtime for Shannon. Yep. And my job was to get the record played
14:44
in re really local radio stations up and down the West Coast and get posters into
14:50
the record store. And I remember going into Tower Records and the guy said to
14:56
me, “Why the [ __ ] should I put up Henry Gross’s picture in our record store?” He
15:02
says, “I’ll tell you what, if you can sell me on it, I’ll put it up.” And sure enough, when I left that store, his
15:09
posting was up in the store. And uh and unfortunately, that didn’t
15:14
last very long because Sony Music bought Life and they no longer needed my
15:20
position. Okay. So, I kicked around for a little while. Uh, and then I got a job working for a
15:29
little magazine called Road and Show. Okay, that was B if if you remember, if you go
15:36
back that way back in the back in the early 70s, there was a place called
15:42
Gower Gulch, the Sony Studios. Sure. And basically what they they did did at that
15:48
moment they consolidated all of these sound and light companies. SIR had an office, CF factor lights, A1 audio,
15:56
world stage and my job for road show was to sell the ants.
16:02
Okay. And so I was selling the ads to all these people and I that’s when I started meeting people like Al Sinuscow, Bob
16:08
White, um um Bob C from Seac, you know. I mean, there was so many companies
16:15
there and I was, you know, walking in and out of their shops all day long and well, it was kind of a free-for-all
16:21
back then, too. Everybody had their own little business. Yeah. Oh, it was it great. Was it great? I had so much fun. Those were the most fun
16:27
days of my life. Uhhuh. In the in those days. Um anyway, so one day I walked into this place called
16:34
World Stage and their concept, the concept was way way way before anyone
16:40
even thought about this and they had Donovan. They they were working with Donovan and Donovan had recorded a
16:47
concert in one room. They beamed it up to their satellite and then beamed it down to another stage studio where they
16:54
had anamorphic projections which was 80 120 ft wide and 80 ft high. And they
17:01
used these three anamorphic projectors um that were the size of Volkswagens.
17:06
Each one was the size of a Volkswagen. Yeah. That was pretty amazing technology for those days in those days. Yeah. World Stage. World
17:13
Stage. And the concept it was by this guy Amelio Escargo who owned Tel Ava.
17:20
And it was the son, not not the senior. And he wanted to do this for the World Cup. They had the World Cup in Mexico
17:27
City. And he wanted to broadcast it in multiple stadiums throughout the world
17:32
with this big anamorphic projection. It turned out it never happened because the Mexico dollar devalued and he couldn’t
17:39
finish the project. And my job, my job when they hired me away from world stage
17:44
was to sell this concept to get it into the world because they wanted the
17:50
Rolling Stones. They wanted they wanted the major bands of those times
17:56
that the Rolling Stones could play a concert, let’s say in Los Angeles, beam it up to the satellite, beam it
18:01
everywhere else, but it was two-way technology. So in the front of the front of the
18:07
stage, they would have a screen that said Los Angeles. They’d have another screen that said Detroit, another screen that said New York, all these different
18:13
cities. Wow. And so while they were performing in one venue, they could look and see, all right, Detroit, what do you
18:20
want to hear? People could throw up the signs or whatever. Wow. Okay. And that concept was so far ahead of its
18:28
time. Yeah. But one one of the moments that will stand out in my life too is that
18:34
Bob White brought in this guy by the by the name of Buckminister Fuller. I don’t
18:40
know if you know who Buckminister Fuller is. The media is the message. Yes. And he invented the geodeic dome
18:45
which he won won I believe it was uh the Nobel Prize for physics
18:51
um on that. And we we we showed him the demonstration
18:56
with Donovan. It was brilliant, you know. I thought it was great. And he turns to us and he says, “This will
19:03
never work.” And we were like, “Our jaws said that our jaws drop.” Wow. Our jaws dropped.
19:10
Yeah. And why wouldn’t it work? And he says, “You know why? Because there’s too much
19:15
technology here.” And as a people, we the more technology we have, the more
19:23
touch we need. The more personal touch and there’s no personal touch. Interesting. Okay.
19:28
So, now I want the who who is a person I’m going to go to to try to get this
19:35
get this in in action? Bill Graham. Oh, okay. And I’m sitting with Bill Graham
19:41
and he says to me, “This will never work.” And I said, “Bill, how could it not work? It’s it’s, you know, you put
19:47
one concert on, all your costs.” He says, “Jan, they can’t feel your sweat.
19:53
You won’t be able to feel the sweat of the band.” I said, “Bill, if I’m in the fifth row, I won’t feel the sweat
19:58
anyway.” He says, “You don’t know what I mean.” “No, this will never work.” Wow. And that’s where we had our
20:03
disagreement. Okay. But who thought it would work? Huh? Led Zeppelin. Interesting. Okay.
20:09
Led Zeppelin thought it would work, but not the way we thought it would work. What Led Zeppelin was doing was they
20:15
were doing a concert in the Kingdome in Seattle and they were doing one in
20:20
Pontiac, Michigan. and they wanted widescreen projection. So, you might not
20:26
know this, but that’s the first time that any any band had widescreen projections.
20:33
And so, I sold Led Zeppelin the widescreen projection for their concert
20:40
in in Pontiac, Michigan at the Kingdom uh the the Silver Dome and then in the
20:46
King Dome in Seattle. Wow. Uh needless to say, I got [ __ ] but
20:52
But I got [ __ ] by I I got I got [ __ ] by Liz Zeppelin. What was their manager’s name? They had a very
20:59
famous manager. Peter Grant. No, I’ll tell you what his name. Peter Grant. Peter Grant.
21:04
And I will never forget Peter Grant in all my life. Um he was quite the character. Oh man, he threatened to have me
21:10
arrested. All right. Must be. But I’m not talking about that now. All
21:15
I’m saying is that he didn’t pay the bill. Okay. He didn’t pay the bill. But the best part about it is I got to go on the road
21:21
with Led Zeppelin. Nice. My first touring show, I was on the road with Led Zeppelin.
21:26
So, what was your role? Uh, salesman for the video. I love it. You know, I was there to just make sure that everything went well with
21:33
the video. You know, that was it with the projection and I was responsible for interfacing with the crew and the management.
21:39
Wow. Okay. So, you know me, I’m kind of a personable guy. And so anyway, the road crew all seemed to like me and so they
21:47
invited me out for drinks and we’re sitting out for drinks and who shows up but Robert Plant. And he’s sitting at
21:54
the table and he’s looking at me and he’s saying, “What are you doing? What are you doing on our show?” And I said,
22:01
“Well, you know, I’m doing the video.” He says, “You know, you’re the only American.”
22:06
He says, “We don’t we don’t use Americans on our crew.” I see.
22:11
But then while we’re sitting there in this hotel, uh, these two girls come up to him and
22:19
they start flirting with him and he says to these girls, he says, “If you want to have sex with me, you have to have sex
22:26
with Jan first.” Wow. Okay. And they left. The girls left.
22:34
Yeah. Oh, I love it. Okay. Yeah. So, so you went on the road with
22:41
I can say that was my first my that was the first time I you know it was my first my first experience on the road
22:47
and I loved every second of it. Anyway, when I came back um because they
22:53
didn’t pay the bill, they fired me. Okay? You know, and plus uh the fact that uh the Mexican dollar had devalued and they
22:59
no longer had any money. Um, not to mention that I slept with the controller’s girlfriend, but I didn’t
23:05
know it was I didn’t know it was his girlfriend. I had no idea. I had no idea. No idea. So, advice advice, you
23:12
know, if you’re out on the road with anybody, you’re working for some, you know, don’t play with the company, Inc.
23:17
That’s it. You know, don’t write on a company. You don’t [ __ ] where you eat. That’s right. Yeah. Mhm. Anyway, from there I
23:24
was lucky enough to meet somebody by the name of uh uh well actually it was Renee
23:31
that I met. Renee was working for Bears.
23:36
Okay, that’s right. Renee Michael Dundis. Boy, I haven’t said that name in a long time. May you rest in peace.
23:42
Michael Dundis was working for RSO records and somehow I’ve become friends with him and Renee was working as
23:50
regional promotion for Bearsville Records and uh and they had an opening
23:56
in the mail room and I got the job working in a mail room but I’m not a
24:01
mail room kind of guy. Yeah, it’s a little bit isolated, huh? You know, but I wanted to be in the
24:06
record business. Of course, if you don’t know who Albert Gman is, who owns Bearsville, you know, he managed Bob Dylan and Janice Joplain
24:13
and he built Beerville Studios, managed the band. Absolutely. Todd quite the character. Yes.
24:19
You know, I got to I got to I got to work with Todd, uh Jesse Winchester, um Paul Butterfield, uh Fog Hat, these
24:28
were these were these were the groups I worked with. Um uh Norma Jean was a was
24:33
a a raw R&B artist. We had uh anyway um basically at that point in time I was in
24:40
the mail room and I wanted to I wanted to be more and I was the the local LA
24:46
scene was happening and I was friends with a lot of the guys. I was going to the Roxy, the Rainbow, the Whiskey, you
24:53
name it. Blackies, uh Madam WS, all of these clubs in LA at the time. Do you
24:58
remember any of them? Well, I’m a little younger, but uh but I actually I I spent most of those years uh like late 70s,
25:05
early 80s in San Francisco. So, but we did come down to LA and play
25:11
a lot of those clubs. So, I’ve played the Whiskey. I played uh played um
25:16
FM Station. You remember that one? Mcnasties. Yeah. Yeah. We played a whole bunch of those
25:22
clubs. So, um but that was that was quite a scene back then. I mean, oh, it was an amazing scene. you know,
25:29
that one stretch of sunset, you know, the motel, the doors, you know, um, the
25:34
Knack. Anyway, I was friends with the Knack. I was friends with Doug Figer and he had my Chirona and
25:41
it was he was like exploding in the LA marketplace. And so I I had the demo and I brought it
25:48
in to Paul Fishiskin who was the president of Bearsville and he says, “Nah, I’m not interested in this.” But I
25:56
also brought it over to EAW because they were right down the street and I showed it to them and they really liked it and
26:03
but Capital Records Bruce Garfield was were had the inside track and he signed
26:08
them. But because of that and I also brought it over to RSO because I was friends with Okay. It was
26:15
very it was very intertwined that because all the all the labels were very close to one another. RSO had the BeeGees in those days.
26:22
The BeeGees. That’s right. That’s right. the Beeges. Anyway, so I brought this I brought this into Rich Fitzgerald.
26:28
Robert Stigwood Robert Stigwood organization. That’s what our associated That’s right. Robert Stigwood.
26:33
And I brought it in I brought it into uh Rich Fitzgerald and he loved it. He
26:39
loved it. And Al Corey was the president of RSO and he loved it, you know, but
26:47
they weren’t prepared to spend the money. Uhhuh. They weren’t prepared to spend the money, but they remembered. And I’d
26:53
stayed friends. And so Rich, I’d go into Rich’s office and he’d have boxes and
26:58
boxes of tapes where you you had to move the boxes to sit down. Yep.
27:04
And I said, “Why are you have all these boxes here?” He said, “Well, these are all tapes that people have sent me.” I
27:09
said, “You know, I would love I’d love to be able to listen to these tapes for you and and you know, maybe we could
27:15
find something good.” He said, “Well, I don’t know about that.” And I said, you know, hey, I want to be an ANR guy. This
27:21
is an opportunity. Oh, okay. I want to be an ANR guy. And uh so Rich had this idea that what
27:29
he would do is take the boxes now and put them on all the chairs and tables in his room so that when Al Corey came in,
27:36
he couldn’t sit down. I love it. And Al said to him, “What the hell are
27:44
all these tapes and boxes? Get rid of them.” He says, “Hey, look, we can’t do that. I want to hire this guy. He’s the
27:50
one who brought us in the the knack tape, you know, and he’s really connecting on this on the scene here. I
27:57
want to bring him in.” And so, they brought me in. Okay. And my job was to listen to the tapes.
28:03
And the other thing that I did was quality control. So, I had to listen all that Star Wars stuff. And, you know,
28:09
because in those days, the way you would do it is you’d press a record. You’d have a mother first. You’d have to make
28:15
sure that the mother didn’t have any flaws in it and then you’d send it to the press and then it would be pressed
28:20
out and sent, you know, and they were selling millions and million. Saturday Night Fever, Greece, I worked on all of
28:25
those records and and uh anyway, but at night I would go
28:31
out to the clubs looking for bands and I remember I remember really well one day
28:37
Al Corey calls me into his office and he says to me, he says, “What time did you
28:42
get into the office today?” I said, ‘Well, I think it’s about 12:30.’ He says, ‘Wh I said, ‘Wow, I’m out on the
28:49
clubs all night. Sometimes I’m partying with these guys. I don’t get back till 3:00 in the morning. He said, listen, I
28:54
don’t care what you do. From now on, you’re here at 10:00 in the morning because people don’t like the fact that
29:00
you’re walking in whenever you’re walking in. You got to be here at 10:00. You know, I remember that really well.
29:06
Anyway, I signed the King Bees and Paul Warren and u and Shot in the Dark. Those
29:13
were the three acts that I worked on. Um, and I was assigned Andy Gibb before he passed away.
29:18
Uhhuh. And I was, you know, the liaison, the ANR le liazison for Andy at RSO records.
29:25
So, did you like working in ANR? I love it. It It’s I used to say that if
29:31
there wasn’t a job like ANR, I’d have to invent it. Uhhuh. You know, it’s a great job. Basically,
29:38
what you’re doing is you’re dealing with the artists and you’re conveying what the artist needs to the business side of
29:46
the record label. Yeah. You’re the translator. You you have to translate to them in what they understand in money. Yeah.
29:53
You know, I need money for publicity. I need money for promotion. I need money
29:58
for marketing. I need money for, you know, I need to have a promotional guy to pro, you know. Yeah. And I learned a
30:05
lot about that. And I learned I learned an awful lot about working with uh working in the in the record industry at
30:12
the time and how competitive it was. It was extremely competitive especially uh
30:18
you know late 70s early 80s when MTV came around and you know you really had
30:25
um because I started working in the studios basically mid 1980s and but I
30:31
came up you know in a band like late basically like 1979 1980 was the you
30:37
know the first bands that I was playing in and I remember in those days just to
30:43
even get in the before of a record label to even talk to anybody was, you know,
30:49
an act of God. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, first of all, we we didn’t want to get any unsolicited material. We really
30:56
couldn’t do much with unsolicited material. You had to have an agent because if if if that music was stolen
31:01
or whatever from someone else, then we would be responsible. Yeah. And then just getting an agent,
31:06
getting anyone interested in you, you know, you’d have to play the clubs forever. And if you were really lucky, I
31:12
mean, we got lucky. Um, I was in a band in San Francisco and um, you know, every
31:18
every city had its own little college music station and and scene and there was a there was a um a a station in in
31:27
San Francisco um, KUSF, University of San Francisco, and they um, I think it
31:34
was I don’t remember what school they were affiliated with, but uh, it was a DJ there who took a liking to one of my
31:41
bands, came to see us at one of the clubs, and then started, you know, basically pushing us to the record labels and we got signed to a local
31:48
record label. Um, but again, you know, just for that to even happen, you had to
31:54
stand out from 200 other bands who were trying to get a gig, you know, trying like you you’d start Tuesday nights, you
32:01
know, and then you maybe if you were lucky, you got a Thursday night gig and maybe if you were really lucky, you got,
32:06
you know, a weekend gig opening for a bigger act that was coming through town. It was a a long slog in this.
32:12
Oh yes. Because you had to build up an audience. Yes. Exactly. You had to have an audience otherwise we weren’t interested in you.
32:18
Right. If you didn’t because in other words we I looked at it like this that if nobody wanted to see you then then you’re never
32:26
going you’re never going to be that popular. we were going to afford to, you know, cuz in those days we used
32:31
to give advances, right? You know, and we’re not going to give you an advance unless we believe that
32:37
you what you’re doing in one market can expand to others. But we you have to show us that you’re doing it in one
32:43
market. Yeah, that makes sense. And I remember also, you know, because each city had its own sort of insular scene,
32:50
you know, you could be, you know, fairly big in San Francisco. You know, you mentioned Chris Isaac, you know, and um
32:56
and I auditioned for his band at one point, you know, but now Chris was one of the few who broke out of San
33:02
Francisco, you know, we shared a we shared a rehearsal studio with a band called Translator who broke out of San
33:09
Francisco and got a a major hit. Um Romeo Void was another band that we
33:15
opened for. These were, you know, bands that actually went somewhere. But that
33:20
was the, you know, that was the aspirational aspect of it all was like, you know, you’d start out at a club and if you were really lucky, you got a gig,
33:27
you know, opening for Romeo Void one night at the Mabooh High Gardens or something, you know, and same thing, you
33:32
know, we’d come down here and you’d want to play Madam Wongs, you know, and if you were really lucky, you’d play Madam
33:39
Wongs and you’d be opening for, you know, whoever was the big band of that era, you know, and it was it was a
33:46
pecking order, so to speak, you know. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, definitely. You’re right.
33:51
You’re right. Absolutely. So, how did you transition from that into live sound again?
33:56
Well, I I I’ll I’ll tell you that, but I’m going to tell you a funny story. When I was with A1 Audio,
34:02
uh um I Chris Isaac, the first time he ever went on a national tour, I got the
34:08
sound I got the sound contract for A1 Audio and Chris and I’m with Chris and
34:13
I’m with Chris and his his his his tour manager was Chris Hudson. And we’re in a
34:19
cab in New York City and the drive, you know, cabs in New York. We even in drove
34:25
one and me too. Me too. And and and and Chris had never been in New York. And
34:31
and he says to the driver, he says, “Hey, I want to get to this gig alive. Slow down.”
34:37
Oh yeah. That’ll just make him speed up, you know. How did I get in back into the business?
34:42
Well, um let’s see. I got to think about this. how how I got out of
34:48
you know a lot Yeah. because a lot of people go into the labels, they never leave the labels. You obviously went
34:54
into that phase of it and then back out in the live again. The way the way it happened was I’m
35:00
sitting in my office. Okay. Uh got to go backwards to go forwards.
35:05
As I told you about friend of mine, Bruce Garfield, who was who who was with Capital Records at the time, big player,
35:11
Capital, he s he signed the Knack and the Motel. Um, and Bob Seager, he was
35:17
with Bob Se I don’t know if he signed Bob, but he was definitely Bob Seager’s right-hand guy. Okay.
35:22
Um, anyway, he says to me, “Hey, look, I’m going to this meeting for the city
35:27
of Los Angeles. They’re going to do the street scene festival.” I said, “What’s that?” He said, “Well, they’re going to
35:33
put some shows on and um we’re meeting with the mayor and and his assistants today. You want to go?” I said, “Now,
35:40
I’m a lowly, you know, I’m with RSO, you know.” I said, “Sure.” And I’m in this
35:46
room and all these big players are saying, “Well, I can do this and I could do that and I could do this and I could
35:52
do that and I can get you.” Well, anyway, it turns out I said, “I don’t know what I could do, but I’m going to
35:58
do whatever I can to help you guys out.” and all these people that said, “I’m going to do this and I’m going to do
36:03
that.” Not one of them came through, but me, I didn’t know any better. So, I said, “Well, I’ll do the rock and roll
36:09
stage.” And I made I made I made a deal with uh KOS out of Los Angeles, and I
36:14
had the KOS stage, and I booked that stage. And then the other thing that I got them I got them the I got them um I
36:22
got them Saturday Night Live in Greece to to project on the side of the buildings of City Hall.
36:27
I love it. Okay. And anyway, it was very successful. And now two years go by or
36:35
no, now the next year goes by and I’m sitting in my office and I’m having the time of my life. I’m
36:40
still at RSO. I’m on RSO. I’m loving it. I’m loving it. And the phone rings and it’s Sylvia
36:46
Kunliff who was the mayor’s. She was the general manager of general services of
36:52
the city of Los Angeles. Now, if you don’t know what general manager of general services do at a at a city, um
37:00
I’ll put it to you this way. If you need a helicopter for the police, you got to go to Sylvia. If you need a pencil and
37:08
you’re you’re in the Department of Works, you’ve got to go to Sylvia. If if you need a garbage camp, you got to go
37:14
to Sylvia. You need a painting for your wall and you’re a congress uh councilman, you need to go to whatever
37:19
it is you need. Okay? postage stamps, whatever it is, anything, police cars, you go through
37:25
general services. And so, so Sylvia, and she was a wonderful woman, very, very special person. Uh,
37:32
they actually did a TV show of of her that um that um I think Valerie Pine. Um
37:40
who was the who was the woman who played Roa? Was it Valerie Pine? Valerie something.
37:46
I think it was Valerie. Anyway, they made a they made a TV show out of Sylvia and Valerie was the Anyway, so she calls
37:53
me up and she says, “Hey, look, uh, our head of the the our director of
37:58
performing arts quit and I want to offer you the job.” And I said, “Sill, I love
38:04
you. It’s great. I love working, but I’m so happy here at RSO that there’s no way
38:09
that I’m going to leave.” She said, “We’ll make it worth your while.” I said, “Listen, let’s just get together for lunch.” And as I’m on the phone, I’m
38:17
on the phone. Laramig Al Corey’s secretary pops her head in my door. And
38:24
this is the very first time she had ever come up to the third floor. I’d never seen her on the third floor before, much
38:30
less come. She said, “We’re having a general meeting. Uh, it’s mandatory in in 20 minutes. Be there.” I said, “Okay.
38:36
Hey, Sil, I got to go. I’ll talk to you later.” Go down to the meeting. And Al
38:42
is crying. All the whole office is there. He’s crying. He says, “Uh, I got really I got bad news. Robert sold the
38:49
record label to Polygram. We’re all fired.” Ouch. Well, there’s timing for you.
38:57
And I said to myself, well, this this is must be faith.
39:02
Yeah, there’s a sign. And rather than look for another job, I went to work for the city of Los Angeles
39:07
uh for the Street Scene Festival and I I was there for three years. Okay. And then I left that and what one
39:14
of my jobs over at the city was providing celebrities for non-political events.
39:20
And so I decided that at that point in time that I’d start putting celebrities
39:26
into commercials, make some money, do a celebrity broker thing. And I was doing that for a while and until it fell
39:32
apart. I got married, moved to Orange County. not, you know, I’m not going to
39:37
go into the minutiae of what happened, but then I’m living in Orange County, but my friend Al Siniscal, who owned A1
39:45
Audio, and I, we stayed in touch. We were we were very good friends. And uh
39:50
when I got my divorce, Al said, “Hey, I need somebody, a salesman, and you’re
39:56
the perfect guy. Why don’t you come work for me?” And that’s how I got back into the business. That’s how I got into the
40:01
live sound side of the business. and I was the vice president of of whatever it was for, you
40:07
know, it’s just the title. I was just a salesman getting getting shows for A1 Audio.
40:12
So, you’re basically setting up shows across the LA area at that point.
40:18
Well, I was selling I was selling PA and um that I got Chris Isaac on the road.
40:24
We we rented him as PA. Um um
40:29
Harry Kik was another job that I got for A1. Um a few others, you know.
40:36
So this was during the days of where you would have sound companies who were literally just hired to do a gig. Like
40:43
for example, you had um you know, you had the um the different production
40:48
companies who would basically be engaged to do a certain series of gigs, right?
40:53
Well, well, I was doing touring stuff uh in the beginning. So, basically, there
40:58
would be a tour manager who hired the production manager and then the production manager would hire
41:04
the sound company, the lighting company, the vitting company, the the the staging
41:09
company. You put it all together. Now, today doesn’t work that way. Right. Now, the one company does
41:14
everything. Yeah. Now, you got the Clares and the Yeah. Yeah. you you do sound, light, staging, video, everything and you know
41:21
whatever it is and it’s one job you know one company does it all now. So there was a certain point at which
41:28
the bands would be touring with their particular front of house people or whatever and they would start to specify
41:36
certain gear. How did that impact what you were doing? Well, that’s how we made our money. So,
41:43
so in other words, like let’s say I got a deal with uh Meer Sound or EAW or
41:48
whatever and now you know so and so this this band is coming through town or they’re they’re booking a tour. So, are
41:55
you then connecting them with the gear? Yes. Basically what basically the way it
42:00
was in those days, you’d have a production manager, right? And then he would hire the sound guy and the sound
42:06
guy would have loyalties to wherever he was. You know, most That’s what I’m thinking. Okay. because I know that that’s how the industry
42:12
evolved and so I’m thinking, you know, because at that point you really you need to have the relationships with certain
42:18
companies like the EAWS, Meer Sounds, you know, whoever it was in those days, you know, well, the way I would get our gigs is I
42:24
would have to get to the production manager before he hired a sound guy. And what I would say to him is, we’ll
42:30
provide you your engineer. Ah, okay. So, you would you would bring in the the front house person for the
42:37
band? Absolutely. Yes. Now that’s a little bit odd because you know in these days
42:43
basically the band or the artist is hiring the front house person and and there’s a certain loyalty there’s a bond
42:49
there which I don’t think was as strong back in those days was it? Oh, absolutely. Like A1, you know, A1 would
42:56
produ, you know, their I guess their big client was Frank Sinatra, um, and Barry Manalo and who else?
43:04
Angelbert Humperdink. And they would provide the engineers. They would, you know, Al would provide everything for
43:10
the from Soundlight, no lighting, you know, but then again, Al was doing mostly Las Vegas stuff, you know. Okay.
43:18
He he owned the Las Vegas market. Yeah. Yeah. which was quite a market to own in those days.
43:24
It was an amazing market to own, you know. Yeah. Amazing market to own. I mean, I remember one day coming coming up and
43:31
that or or a weekend coming up when I first started working for him. I saw Melissa Manchester at the MGM. Um Paul
43:39
Ananka at the Riviera, Frank Sinatra at Caesars, and u I forgot who the and there was one
43:47
other band I can’t remember, but those are the three bands I remember seeing. in one weekend.
43:52
Yeah, I was going to say that’s that’s a lot of shows in one weekend. Yeah. You know, I can’t remember who the fourth.
43:58
So, now you were you when you’re doing these things back then,
44:04
it’s it’s a combination of these one-offs like that, but also tours, right? Well, I was looking for the tours. I
44:10
wasn’t looking for the one-offs, okay? I was looking for the tours, you know, looking, you know, for bands that were going out on tours.
44:16
But, you know, like for example, I’ll give you an example. So, I had a lead on B. Midler and um B. Midler had been done
44:25
by Marilyn Sound for a long time, right? And I was in the final running and I
44:30
went to Al and I said, “Al, we can get the B. Midler tour, but we’ve got to buy I forgot what it was. We had to buy a
44:36
console.” And Al didn’t want to spend the money for the console. And so, we didn’t end up getting that
44:41
tour, you know. But what I found out for you people who are, you know, uh it’s it’s
44:48
just like building a house. You know, you get a you get a you get drawings and
44:54
you say, “Let’s do it.” But all of a sudden, you’re building the house and you say, you know, it would be nice to
45:00
have a window over there. And then the change order comes in. Yep. And that’s when they got you because you’re they’re
45:08
already down the road with the contractor. you’ve there you you can’t just say I’m gonna get another contractor right and so they said well
45:15
that window is going to be about half the price of what you’re paying for the whole thing you know and what are you doing and that’s the same thing with
45:21
with with contracting sound and lights you know let’s just say they wanted uh
45:26
for example uh in those days a PM 3000 well now they go into rehearsal and they
45:31
realize you know we’d really rather have a gamble oh well kaching kaching gee there you go you know and that’s how
45:37
you make your money and that’s also how you forge these relationships with the different companies. Yeah,
45:43
absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, uh, you know, for example, um, EAW, they were well known for that where
45:48
they would kind of infiltrate into a tour. Um, and that was that was actually Kenny Burgerer,
45:54
you know, mostly at that point. But, um, you know, you had you had people like that at every company. Meer Sound would
46:00
do the same thing, you know. Uh and you know, you talk about like companies like Maryland Sound, you know, they would
46:06
really have, you know, the handle on who’s going out and they would be like they’d swoop in there and say, “Okay,
46:13
you know, we want to we want to get this gig.” Same thing with um you know, who are the other big companies at the time?
46:19
Well, my main my main com competitor was Dirk Schubert of Schubert Sound. Schubert Sound,
46:24
which turns out now Durk and I are very good friends. I love it. Yeah. You had Schubert Sound. You had um what was um Oh gosh. A guy
46:33
who lives down in um in um Oh, Dave Shidone. Dave Shidone. Well, Dave Shidone, you
46:38
know, Sound Image. Yeah. And Sound image just was bought out by Claire, right? Well, Claire’s bought everything.
46:44
Yeah. They just bought Clarewing, too. Yeah, I know. In fact, anything that Clare didn’t buy, Solot bought, you
46:50
know. That’s and that that has been the the the way the industry has evolved now is that everything’s being consolidated
46:57
but every other industry too. Absolutely. Yeah. You know and even the companies that manufacture the stuff
47:03
have all been consolidated you know but in those days especially it was kind of more of the wild west especially in
47:10
terms of like you know you didn’t you didn’t buy a whole system you bought components from this components from
47:16
that. People would cobble together these systems you know. Well, that was one of the first things that Ken Burgerer came
47:22
up with, which really revolutionized the touring industry, was the fact that he
47:27
got everybody to build the same exact amp racks. So now you can rent your amp rack from
47:34
anywhere. You know, you were going in New York, you needed extra amp racks, you know, plug and play. Yeah. And he was one of the first people to come up
47:40
with that idea from a manufacturing level. Yes. And that led to a whole, you know, a whole new backline industry basically,
47:47
you know. Yep. Absolutely. Then then then el acoustics came along and you know they
47:53
said well we’re going to do the same thing. You know if you’re going to be an eloustic you have you can’t just buy this. You got to buy this and this and
48:00
this. Right. Because you have to be prepared for when the when the gig is coming through town you have to be able to give them everything on the rider.
48:05
That’s right. Yeah. And that I think has really been how that whole industry evolved you know. Well, I think so too. But you
48:12
know, so now you know now I am um you know looking back at it now. So when A1
48:23
when you know when I left A1 um
48:28
basically I got a call I I I left A1 because I wanted to do standup comedy.
48:35
Really? Okay. That’s really came down. And I I wanted to do standup comedy and I was working
48:41
on a show called The Comedy Club Superstars, uh, which I had sold to ABC through
48:50
Andrew Salt Productions. And the way I got that was learning about Andrew Salt
48:55
Productions because they were producing the Les Paul special at the House of Blues. And the gig that I I while I was
49:02
at A1, I sold the House of Blues their PA system. It was the first one in LA.
49:09
And they needed someone to run as a production manager. So Al said, “Why don’t you go work as a production
49:14
manager?” And so I was working as a production manager while working for A1 at the House of Blues. It was a great
49:21
gig. Interesting. Double dipping. I loved every second, you know. Yeah. Anyway, so I met these people and
49:27
then when I was doing standup comedy, this guy uh John Deellis came to me and
49:33
with this idea of a show that he had because he was an oldtime he was friends with Larry David. He was friends with
49:39
Jerry Seinfeld. He was friends with a lot of these guys, but he never made it as a comedian. He made it as a writer.
49:45
He was a summer and he had the idea of a show of where the the famous comedians that are on TV now, how they’re
49:51
affecting the way we watch TV from the clubs and that was the idea of the show.
49:57
Um, we interviewed hundreds of comedians successfully and I gleamed out of this I
50:05
gleamed out of this this this this fact about life in general is number one to
50:13
be successful you got to believe in yourself. Absolutely got to believe in yourself and you have
50:18
to have everybody in your circle believe in you as as much as you believe in
50:23
yourself. The second thing you need to do is you need to do it every day. You need to whatever it is you’re going to
50:29
do, do it every day. Yep. Has to become muscle memory. And the third thing that they all said
50:36
was that you can’t have a safety net. If you have a safety net, you’re never going to make it. You’ll never take the chance.
50:42
You’re never going to make it. And so interesting. I’m doing this Comedy Club superstar and I h Jerry Seinfeld comes
50:50
in and I’ve been talking with Paul Riser and now remember these are the two top
50:56
shows on TV right now, Seinfeld and Mad About You. And Paul Riser says to Jerry,
51:02
he says, “Hey, uh, this guy, he’s a really funny comedian.” And Jerry turns
51:07
to me, he says, “If you’re so funny, how come I never heard of you?” And Paul and Paul then Paul says, “But
51:15
he’s the one who’s producing the show. He’s the one who sold this to ABC.” And Jerry says, “Listen, you’re never going
51:20
to make it as a comedian. What do you want to do? You want to be a comedian or a producer? One of the two.” And I said,
51:27
“Okay. Um, I want to be a comedian.” And I thought
51:33
maybe he would give me a spot. I didn’t get any break from him
51:38
whatsoever. And I started doing standup comedy. Oh. and and and I’d been doing it for
51:45
about a year and I went through all my savings. I was broke and I mean I was
51:52
broke. I I had to take out a loan on my car so that I had to pay my rent so I
51:58
could pay my rent. Wow. Okay. Anyway, and I’m working for the improv
52:03
doing standup comedy um standup comedy driving school, you know. So if you got
52:09
a ticket, you’d have to come to me and I’d have to, you know, I I actually went to one of those when I got
52:15
a ticket. Yeah. Anyway, they loved me there. I was great. But blah, blah, blah. So I’m starving to death and all of a sudden
52:21
the phone rings and it’s Morris Lighter. And I had worked with Morris Lighter many, many times on many, many jobs when
52:29
I was with A1. And so Morris says, “I need your help.” And I said, “Great.” I
52:34
said, “That’s that’s phenomenal. I would love to help you. You know what? What? What’s going on? He says, “I’m with
52:39
Disney.” I said, “That’s great.” I said, “What do you need? You need me to, you know, you need me to warm up the act?
52:45
You need me to sing, dance? What is it?” He said, “What are you talking about? I need you to sell some gear for me.”
52:52
I said, “Morris, I’m a comedian.” And then I’ll never ever forget what he said
52:58
next. He says, “You’re a comedian. That’s the funniest thing I ever heard you say.” [Applause]
53:03
[Laughter] I love it. Uhhuh. He says, “Cut this [ __ ] man. I need I
53:10
need I’m working for Disney and I’ve got too much of this stuff and not enough of
53:15
this stuff and I need to sell the stuff I don’t need so I can buy the stuff that I need. And we’re going out on the road.
53:21
It’s called Disney Fest Asia and we’re going out on the road in a couple of months and I need you now.” And I said,
53:28
“Morris, I’d love to help you, but I can’t do it.” And he says, “Hey, when you wanted to work for Prince, did I
53:35
tell you I couldn’t do it? When you wanted to work for MC Hammer, did I tell you I couldn’t do it? When you wanted to
53:40
work for Phil Collins, did I tell you I couldn’t do it? No. I’m counting on you for this. I said, “All right.” So, my
53:47
thought process was I was going to go down there, look at what he had, and figure out somebody else to get him do
53:53
it, you know. But he convinced me that this was going to be this, you know, this was exactly
53:59
up my alley. And he was right. I made $30,000 after taxes in three weeks. And it
54:06
really depressed me because I said to myself, I’ve been working years with no
54:12
money. I’m broke doing what I love doing. And now here’s something I don’t
54:17
care about one way or another. But I made more money in in three weeks than I
54:24
than than I did in a year. You know, that’s interesting that you bring that up because I’ve known a lot of artists
54:31
like that who they have to choose between art and commerce. You know, I
54:36
mean, if you think about most of the companies in our industry, you know, a lot of these people are frustrated
54:42
artists, musicians, you know, and they basically they realize, well, you know, as much as I would like to do the artist
54:50
thing, you know, there’s a certain security in yeah, making a regular paycheck or whatever it is, you know,
54:57
and the funniest part about it is that ultimately you realize that you can be good at both, but you have to make a
55:04
commitment to something, you And you know, clearly you made the commitment. Well, it was it I went
55:10
tough choice, huh? I went fighting, screaming, dragging, kicking, you know, whatever. Of course. Of course. So, you know, I wanted to get back into
55:17
performance, but I I felt like I I I felt like I needed the money. And so, I went so I got a call almost
55:25
immediately after I did the Disney thing from Harmon. You know, David Sherman,
55:31
of course, right? David Sherman, Mike McDonald’s, you know, o over at over they were at JBL. It wasn’t Harmon yet.
55:37
It was JBL, right? And they called me up and they says, “Hey, um, we want you to do for us what you did
55:45
for Disney.” And they had done a JBL garage sale, which I did not know. Had I wouldn’t
55:51
have known, I wouldn’t have done this. This is another thing of fate where I wouldn’t have done it. They had taken tractor trailers full of gear back and
55:58
forth over the country trying to sell it. And this was the the stems and this was the stems and seeds of what they had
56:05
left. Uhhuh. But it was a warehouse full of [ __ ] Mhm. And David Bell was the head of vice
56:11
president of sales. And they said, they brought me in and they said, “Hey, we want you to sell this for us.” I said,
56:17
“Okay, I’ll take a job.” And they said, “No, no, no, no, no job. You got to do this as an independent.”
56:23
Oh, okay. Independent. You’ll be salesman number six for us. I said, “I don’t know.” He
56:28
says, “Hey, this is all we can know. I needed the money. I felt like I I felt
56:33
like I was on the right path. Uh, you know, I’ll just work there and um I I have an office in Harmon. Uh I I’ll make
56:40
this work. I’ll get them to hire me.” Uh-huh. So, I’m in the office and I’m selling the gear and I’m selling it. I’m selling
56:46
it really good. And uh one and I’m still doing my comedy thing at night and I’m
56:53
doing productions and all that. And the phone rings, you know, I’m selling gear and the phone rings and this guy says,
57:00
and I answer the phone, pick it up, and I’m not sure how to answer the phone. Do I say Harmon JBL soundbroker? I’m not
57:09
sorry. I’m not sorry. Sound broker. Do I say uh Cash Land Pro Sales? Do I say Jan Landy? Do I say 4321? The name of the
57:16
phone number? Don’t know. So, I answer the phone really confused. And the guy on the other end of the phone says to
57:22
me, “I’m sorry. I think I have the wrong number. I was looking for the sound broker.
57:29
Lights went off in my head. I said, “You got him. You got Can I call you back in 10 minutes?” He said, “Sure.” And I hung
57:36
up with him and I went to the the the SCOPs over at Harmon. I said, “I got this great name for a company. How do I
57:43
register?” And he registered for me, soundbroken.com. And um anyway, um he never called back.
57:50
I have no idea who this guy was. And that was But he gave you a gift. It It turns out that I was at the right
57:57
place at the right time with all the skill sets that I had coming together.
58:02
And so now couple of days later, I get a call from this guy and he’s looking for some JBL
58:09
amps. And I believe that they were the 4630s. I’m not 100% sure of the of the
58:14
model, but when I worked for A1, every day I when I went upstairs to my office,
58:21
on both sides of the stairs, there were these 4630 amps because they changed
58:27
from the JBL amp over to Crown. Uhhuh. And crest. So, they weren’t using these
58:33
amps and they were on the stairs. And I said to the guy, I said, “Listen, I’m really sorry, but I just sold the last
58:39
one new, but you know what? I might know where some used ones are. Would you be interested? He says, “Yeah, I would be
58:47
interested in a used one.” I said, “How many you need?” He says, “10.” I call Al and I says, and and they they were
58:53
selling for a,000 bucks a piece, the new ones. Um and I call Al and I said, “Hey, you still got those amps on the stairs?
58:59
Would you like to sell them?” And he says, “Yeah.” Uh I said, “What do you want from them?” $200 a piece. Call the
59:04
guy back and I said, “I can get you as many as you need. 800 bucks a piece. How many?” Nice. He says, “I’ll take them
59:10
all.” And after that sale went through, I called Allan. I said, “What else you
59:16
got?” And I got an Excel spreadsheet, put it all together, started, and that
59:21
was the start of Soundbroker. Wow. Okay. And it obviously worked out for you.
59:26
20 27 years later, I’m still doing the same thing. Uhhuh. Well, now the industry has
59:32
changed a little bit in that time, huh? Industry has changed so much. When I
59:37
started, eBay started at the same time. My biggest mistake was not selling
59:42
refrigerators, too. If only I would have sold refrigerators,
59:49
toasters, whatever. But anyway, um at one point, um they called me in eBay and
59:56
they said, “Look, and if you could, you know, you’re killing us on on items, you
1:00:02
know, musical items. Anything over 800 bucks, they’re buying it from you, not us, you know. Um
1:00:10
if you can automate it, if you could automate it, we’ll buy you. We’ll buy
1:00:15
you.” And like an idiot, I said, “I don’t know how to automate it.” I mean, hey, you know, Buckminster full F full F
1:00:21
full F full F full F full F full F full F full F full F fuller told me he says you know you you know more high-tech you get the more high touch you need I’m
1:00:27
giving him a lot of high touch and needless to say you know about eBay
1:00:33
now and you know but Soundro is doing okay we’re doing right well and also there’s
1:00:39
a certain value to specializing in something you know yeah but loyalty is a thing of the past yes of course you know it’s all about
1:00:45
the price now yeah now it’s all about the price it’s all about the price and and the availability and if if you can save a
1:00:53
few cents and you don’t have any vested interest then you’re moving on and
1:00:59
because of that I’ve modified soundbroker and I was telling you earlier where we have a membership
1:01:05
program and that membership program does a couple of things but the number one thing it does for me in all sincerity is
1:01:14
that it it it takes the tire kicker and turns them into a buyer or a seller
1:01:21
because nobody’s going to give me $100 of membership money unless they’re
1:01:27
serious about moving forward. Yeah. Makes sense. No one. And so I get these guys, they’re talking to me, talking to me, talking to me,
1:01:33
blah blah blah, promised moon, the earth. I says, “There’s a hundred bucks. Can I call you later?” Yeah. Thanks.
1:01:38
Goodbye. You know, but those that are serious pay the hundred bucks and we we make the sales. It also separates the
1:01:46
the one-time small buyer from the big volume, let’s say, doesn’t it? Well, I don’t really care about that.
1:01:52
The only thing I care about is making sure that whoever plays with
1:01:58
me comes out a winner. That’s the only thing I care about. And you got to start
1:02:04
somewhere. Yeah. So, a lot of the guys that I’m dealing with now, I sold them their first PA.
1:02:11
Uhhuh. you know, and so yeah, I mean now, do I want to sell the small stuff?
1:02:19
No. So now if you have a small item, anything under $5,000, you become a
1:02:25
member and I become a classified ad section for you. Cuz if we get a lead, we just send it right to you and you
1:02:31
make your own sale. So it works out well for everybody. So how does it differ from let’s say you
1:02:38
know now you have competitors like you have not just eBay you have like reverb and stuff like that reverb Facebook marketplace
1:02:45
you know and how do you maintain your individuality in the face of all that that’s a really good question and the
1:02:52
the identity is still sound broker soundbroker and and and if you call the company now
1:03:00
or you call the phone number you’ll hear this you know thanks for calling Soundbroker the name to trust when it
1:03:07
comes to buying or selling of entertainment production equipment. And there is not a soul, not a soul in
1:03:15
the last 28 years that I’ve been doing this that could say I [ __ ] them. Not a soul. I have taken care of everybody.
1:03:22
Nobody else can say that. Nobody. None of my competitors, you know, and I have a few of them that are still available
1:03:29
to, you know, that you can go with, but not one of them can say that. Hey, you know, I’d have nobody that’s you I
1:03:35
there’s not one soul that out there that could say what I say. Nice. Because I never really did it for the
1:03:42
money. It was always because it was the right thing to do at the right time. You know,
1:03:48
the money if if you’re going to do anything for money, then there’s never going to be enough
1:03:54
money. That’s right. There’s never going to be enough money. But once you figure out what it is you
1:03:59
need to be doing with your life, all the money you need will come to you. Yes. Because you’re doing it out of a
1:04:04
passion to want to do it. That’s right. Absolutely. And the scare you. Yeah. I have always found that, you
1:04:10
know, if you really want to do something, if you really have a passion for something and you don’t put the money first, usually it works out. If
1:04:18
you put the money first, it never does. Yeah. If you go into something, you know, I mean, of course, if you you
1:04:23
know, you’re going into, you know, the banking business or or or or selling selling of, you know, airplanes, you
1:04:30
know, you’re doing it because you want to make the money, right? But when it comes to a creative side or, you know,
1:04:36
if if you’re doing something for the money, you’ll never be successful in it. Never.
1:04:42
Yeah, that’s true. That’s why you have so many failed artists because they’re motivated by the wrong thing.
1:04:47
Yeah. And like I said, the other thing is is that if when you’re doing what you’re supposed to be doing, all the
1:04:54
money that you need will be there. Yeah. You know, and it may not be a fortune, but it’ll be, as you just said, all the money you
1:05:00
need. That’s right. All the money you need. But if you’re doing it for the money, there will never be enough money.
1:05:05
Yeah. No matter how much money you make, it’ll never be enough. It’s a good point. You know, never be enough.
1:05:12
And so, uh, you know, that’s why that’s, you know, I love what I do. and I will
1:05:18
continue doing it until I don’t do it anymore.
1:05:24
All right, let me let me um let me wrap with a question that I usually ask
1:05:29
people anyway. Mhm. And I think for you it’s really kind of timely.
1:05:36
The industry has changed so much over the years now. Everything that you do
1:05:42
has changed because of the way the industry has changed. What do you tell 15year-old you coming up now?
1:05:50
I would tell the 15year-old me to get a job in the trades. Um, become a plumber,
1:05:58
become an electrician. You know, that’s what I would tell them. And, you know, unless you have the strongest desire in
1:06:05
the world to fight the future, because right now the future
1:06:11
is AI any way you look at it. And eventually, as of right now, AI has not
1:06:18
come into our world, whereas it’s mixing a show, but it’s it’s inevitable that
1:06:23
that’s going to happen. It’s, you know, the job of sound engineer that’s going
1:06:29
to that’s going to dissipate. Um, you know,
1:06:34
I don’t know what to tell somebody that wants, you know, get a job. get a job that requires the use of your physical
1:06:43
being that you could use your mind as well. But if you’re if you can’t touch
1:06:49
it and feel it, then I would think that you have to be you have to really look
1:06:55
at it from a standpoint of view is will AI can AI do what I’m doing?
1:07:03
Not only can it do what I’m doing, but can I, you know, you talk, we talked earlier about having a passion for
1:07:08
something. AI is never gonna have a passion for something. It’s just going to do the job.
1:07:13
Yeah. You know, I mean, I see so much AI right now, and it’s only in the beginning
1:07:19
stages, even even bands right now. Um, I think
1:07:25
it’s called the Sundown Velvet or the Velvet Sundown. um where it is a
1:07:31
complete artificial intelligent band with visuals and sound. I’ve seen that. Yeah.
1:07:36
And it’s in the top it’s in the top uh top 100 Billboard charts right now. And
1:07:42
I read a very disturbing article that
1:07:48
Spotify has a vested interest in getting away
1:07:54
from paying artist royalties. And if they can use AI music, they won’t need
1:08:01
to pay real human beings. Well, it’s not just Spotify. I mean, the labels want that. You know, Universal
1:08:06
Music wants that. You know, a lot of these labels, that’s what they’re doing now because that way they can own the
1:08:12
publishing. They can own the entire property. They don’t have to pay royalties to anybody. Well, you can’t you can’t you can’t
1:08:19
copyright artificial intelligence material. Yeah. Exactly. So there is no there is
1:08:25
no copyright there and therefore there’s no copyright holder to pay. That’s right. That’s and that’s why
1:08:30
that’s why it’s it would be a boon for them. I mean and that’s why you’re seeing so much AI video right now on
1:08:37
YouTube. Yeah. Yeah. It’s true. You know it’s it’s so 15year-old me. I
1:08:44
don’t know what I would tell myself other than get a job as a you know a plumber. You know, because you know, as
1:08:50
as my plumber says, a flush beats a full house.
1:08:57
That’s true. Yeah. And you know, those are jobs that are not going to go away. No, that I can’t see how AI can, you
1:09:04
know, fix your plumbing. Fair point. You know, but as far as creative goes,
1:09:09
you know, you want to play guitar, play guitar. You want to play piano, play I mean, if you’ve got a passion for music,
1:09:15
go for it. and use artificial intelligence to help you out. But go for what your dreams are. Don’t don’t run
1:09:22
away from your dreams because you know if you don’t if you never try then you
1:09:29
will never you will never fail but you will also never accomplish anything
1:09:34
and you’ll never know what could have happened. That’s right. You never know what can happen. the truth. You know, life is life is life is what
1:09:41
happens to you every moment you’re breathing, you know, or John Le John Lennon says it, you
1:09:48
know, life is what happens to you while you’re busy making other plans. Exactly. Yeah. And I don’t know how many times I’ve
1:09:54
said this, but man, where did the time go? Where did the time go?
1:10:00
It’s true. You know, in our heads, we’re still in our 20s, you know. Yeah. I I know that I am. you know, in my
1:10:07
head, I I just, you know, it’s hard for me to realize that I am in my 70s. It’s
1:10:13
just amazingly difficult. And if you want to if you want to deal with your own mortality,
1:10:20
go and set up a will and a trust, then you know, then you’ll know. There’s only
1:10:25
thing one one worse one worse thing than that is having a close friend die, you know, or a family member die. And by the
1:10:32
time you get to this age, you’ve had a few of those, too, you know. But I don’t know about you,
1:10:37
but you know, whenever I hear of anyone dying, you know what my first question is,
1:10:42
other than how did they die, my first question is is how old were they?
1:10:48
Yes. And you know, if they say, “Oh, he he was 70 years old.” I say, “Wow, I’ve
1:10:54
lived four more years than he has.” You know, you know, he was 80. Man, I got six years to go. Come on, baby. Let’s
1:11:01
make it. Now, a friend of mine did something recently that really struck me. We were at his place and he’s got
1:11:08
this um he’s got this house in Phoenix and he’s got this very long driveway and he took a 100 ft measure tape measure
1:11:17
and he rolled it out into the driveway and he said, “Okay, so the average American male lives somewhere between 74
1:11:24
78 years.” Okay. So, I’m going to stand right over here at 7478. Right? He said,
1:11:31
I’m going to even go you better. I’m going to stand over here at 80. Now, he said,
1:11:36
pick the year that you are at right now and go stand there. Right? So, I stand
1:11:42
like where I am right at that point in time. And he says, “Now
1:11:47
look to your left.” And to my left is all the way down to zero. He says, “Now
1:11:52
look to your right. you know this and you think to yourself, man, I’ve lived all those years, you
1:12:00
know, and yeah, you know, I mean, you become conscious of the fact that there’s not that many years left. I
1:12:06
mean, you know, truth of the matter is, hey, we we all know people who have dropped dead in their 30s and 40s, too. So, you know,
1:12:12
but the point is, if you’ve lived a good long life and you’re fortunate enough to have done so, and you’re still in good
1:12:19
health, be grateful for every day, man. Oh, yeah. You know, yeah. I think the hardest part about growing old other than in large prostate
1:12:28
um is losing friends and Yes. And the the the longer you’re around, the more
1:12:35
friends you you do lose. Yes. But they live inside you. They’ll always live inside you.
1:12:41
Absolutely. You know, I mean absolutely. My best friend who passed away four years ago, there’s still not a day that
1:12:48
goes by that that something doesn’t remind me of him. I have a few friends who I saved their last voicemail.
1:12:55
Yeah. You know, I mean, you know, you just consider yourself fortunate that you’re still
1:13:00
here. So, do you think that as long as you’re alive and you could remember them that
1:13:06
they’re still alive, too? In a sense, yes. Absolutely. They’re alive for me.
1:13:12
You know, and everything that we’ve been through and experienced together. You know, I have one of my closest friends
1:13:18
passed away about four years ago and you know, I went to visit him before he he
1:13:24
had lung cancer, you know, so we it was a slow decline. We knew he was going. We
1:13:30
went down to visit him and uh you know, we sat around and played guitar because
1:13:35
we were in bands together, you know, and it was just one of those things where you sit, you talk, and you remember the
1:13:41
things that you’ve been through. And those are things that you’re not going to let go of, you know. Yeah, they stay with you.
1:13:46
Absolutely. Absolutely. But you know, it’s funny. I mean, I was I was with my wife recently and um
1:13:55
you know, we went to this estate sale. You know how you have these you know, it’s not a garage sale, but it’s like
1:14:02
where you go through the whole house. you know, when you’re looking and you know, it’s in a way it was sad
1:14:07
because you think to yourself, I’m walking through somebody’s house and all of these things were cherished bits that
1:14:14
these people, you know, lived with and they were part of their lives and now it’s like some, you know, what do you
1:14:20
want for that? You know, it’s like it’s it’s worth nothing to most people. Oh, but that’s Yeah. You know, but
1:14:27
that’s just the thing, you know, it’s what is valuable to you is the stuff that really, you know, nobody else will
1:14:34
feel the way you do about it. The same thing is true with friends and relationships. And if you don’t cherish
1:14:40
those, you know, I read an article recently about um they were talking
1:14:45
about, you know, super aers, right? You know, people who live to be in their 80s, 90s, even past 100. And they said
1:14:52
the thing that they found that most of them have in common, lots of friends, big social circle, you know, and I think
1:14:59
to myself, man, I feel incredibly fortunate to have lived in an industry
1:15:05
where I know a lot of people, where I can call a hell of a lot of people, my
1:15:11
friends, you know, and I feel like this is what enriches me, man. You know, it’s
1:15:16
like it’s not about how much money you have. It’s not about you. It it’s a I
1:15:21
mean I’m grateful I have good health, you know. I’m grateful to have enough people around me who I care about, who
1:15:28
care about me, you know, who are happy to hear from you, you know, things like that. That’s the stuff that matters.
1:15:35
You’re 100% correct. You know, um but to quote, you know, Errol Flynn and David
1:15:40
Lee Roth, people who think that money can’t buy them happiness just don’t know where to shop.
1:15:49
And to quote Jan Landy, I will say this. You know, money is a great [ __ ] tool,
1:15:54
man. Money is a great [ __ ] tool. It it it it can’t buy you love, but it it
1:16:00
it can give you freedom. And that it can give you freedom. Yes. And that is something that, you know,
1:16:06
or at least a certain a certain aspect of freedom. Now, you know, look, we both know, I’m sure, plenty of people who
1:16:12
have had a lot of money who are miserable. Well, I think about I think about Steve Jobs. Here’s a guy that had more money
1:16:20
than anyone could ever spend in a lifetime. Yeah. But he’s not with us anymore. Yep. He’s not here.
1:16:25
Yeah. You know, I mean, um I’m hoping I’m pronouncing his name correctly.
1:16:30
James Gapino. Gafino. Gaffino. The guy that played Sopranos.
1:16:35
Yeah. I mean, he died on a movie set. And I’m saying to myself, man, that guy had plans for tomorrow. I know he had plans
1:16:41
for tomorrow. I mean, he had the top of the, you know, Anthony Berdane, you know, I mean,
1:16:47
he had a great, it looked to me from the outside looking in, he had a great life, but he’s not here anymore, you know,
1:16:53
because you never know when your next day is going to be. That’s right. Yeah. Anyway, I’m going to I’m I’m going to
1:16:58
leave it with this, and this is this is my catchphrase that I been saying this
1:17:05
now for as long as I can remember, and uh it’s you make it happen. So go out
1:17:11
and make it happen. I love it. Jan Landy, thank you for being my guest. My pleasure, man. My pleasure. It was
1:17:19
Daniel. It was This was You brought back so many memory lane things that I’d forgotten about, you know, and uh uh
1:17:27
hey, I just hope the the statue of limitations have passed.
1:17:37
Hey, I’m Daniel Keller. Don’t forget to hit the subscribe button and join us each week for Insights and Sound.